definition of "brotherhood"

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Colby Fahrenbacher
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Re: definition of "brotherhood"

Post by Colby Fahrenbacher »

bloke wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 11:26 am
“The stated goals of the organization were and are :
- To expand performance and employment opportunities.
- To enhance the image and role of our instruments and performers.
- To explore pedagogical approaches through new teaching resources.
- To promote activity in new instrument design.
- To generate new compositions for the tuba and euphonium.
- To explore new directions in technique.
- To establish and maintain appropriate libraries of recorded and printed materials.
- To encourage tuba-euphonium workshops and conferences.
- To publish a journal.”
a whole bunch of words which go into the specifics of "doing well"...but that's just fine, and good specific info.

I and countless others can thing of some additional goals (whether-or-not-stated, and - arguably - not particularly helpful) that obviously were prioritized around the time of the name change.
Correct, ITEA embraced new goals, including:

“The change was brought about to address concerns regarding the inclusion in its name of women and euphonium players, both of whom had long been members, in order to be more representative of the organization.”

Sorry not sorry if the “woke” idea of an organization actually representing its membership triggers you.


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Schlitzz
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Re: definition of "brotherhood"

Post by Schlitzz »

bloke wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 5:16 pm Toobuh
Ufonyem
Beer
Associates

girls too...you betcha !
Tubists Universal Business Association.
Yamaha 641
Hirsbrunner Euph

I hate broccoli.
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Mark
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Re: definition of "brotherhood"

Post by Mark »

Colby Fahrenbacher wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 3:49 pm I don’t know the answer to that question, but it might be a good research project for someone interested in having informed opinions.
After the ITEA intentionally failed to report the vote totals for the name change, I don't think I would trust any "statistics" they reported.
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graybach (Thu May 08, 2025 2:10 pm)
Colby Fahrenbacher
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Re: definition of "brotherhood"

Post by Colby Fahrenbacher »

Well they withheld the data, they didn’t manipulate it. There’s a lot of reasons, not all of them nefarious as everyone assumes, for why they would withhold it. For example, if a vast majority of the membership simply abstained, people would still call into question the popularity of the change since the vote isn’t representative of the total membership.

But, this brings up another question I’ve been thinking about:

Was this advertised as a vote to determine whether the organization should change its name? Or was it advertised as a poll to gauge the membership’s opinions about making a change?

The former implies that the decision is being made by the membership. The latter implies that the board is ultimately making the decision and taking into consideration the poll. It also means they can make a decision even if it is perceived as unpopular.

By all appearances at least, no by-laws were broken in this process, even if it doesn’t sit well with people.
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Re: definition of "brotherhood"

Post by Mark »

Colby Fahrenbacher wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 12:32 pm Well they withheld the data, they didn’t manipulate it.
How do you know they didn't manipulate it?
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graybach (Thu May 08, 2025 2:11 pm)
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Re: definition of "brotherhood"

Post by Colby Fahrenbacher »

Because we have zero evidence to suggest that was the case. I don’t live my life buying into baseless conspiracy theories just because they make me feel justified in my frustrations.
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Re: definition of "brotherhood"

Post by bort2.0 »

I never realized that TUBA was renamed to ITEA. I thought they were two separate things, and that TUBA just kind of went out of business or something. I always thought ITEA was some kind of Euro-tuba-thing.
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Re: definition of "brotherhood"

Post by bort2.0 »

The whole thing it confusing, because as tuba players, we pride ourselves on being practical and only as effortful as we need to be. It should have been so simple:

TUBA = Tuba und Baritone Association

Close enough. :cheers:
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Colby Fahrenbacher (Thu May 08, 2025 1:03 pm)
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Re: definition of "brotherhood"

Post by bloke »

By just having implied that those who don't support your views (me, specifically - being the most succinct and outspoken) are RACISTS, you just did a really excellent job of demonstrating your own nursed stereotypes, bigotry, wrong-headedness, complete lack of understanding, and hate towards those who you suspect don't support the politics that you support...as well as your assumptions, and presumptions - in general - towards people and politics that you don't seem to be cognitively sophisticated enough to have the ability to understand or embrace.

As I entered college just about the time T.U.B.A. was formed (and even back then it's pretty likely that those who founded it were considered "progressive", though American progressivism - at that time had not metastasized itself to the point that it has today of being blatantly and openly fascio-marxist) I can't think of anything that T.U.B.A. ever did that discouraged "minorities" from playing the tuba, and - whenever there was a "minority" (quotations explained in a subsequent paragraph below) tuba player during the T.U.B.A. era who was actively involved in tuba playing, teaching, and regardless of membership, they were particularly highlighted.

Your entire quasi-religious set of socio-political views -which have affected you so severely in so many negative ways - quite obviously generate internal anger, and hate, insulting/attacking ways, and inflammatory/accusatory remarks, which is probably the main reason why your comments are so very offensive to so very many people who are sensible, and who think clearly.

Viewing people - first and foremost as belonging to some biological group rather than viewing them first and foremost on their own merits (character and abilities) - is just about the most insulting and racist-and/or-sexist thing (towards any individual) that I can think of, whereby an individual is - first and foremost - to be assigned to a herd of human livestock, and then it is decided upon whether they warrant not to be culled. It's the promotion of this very type of mentality that attempts to gaslight people (by finger-wagging and claiming that sensible mind-their-own-business/struggle-to-pay-their-bills-and-pay-their-taxes people are "fascists"), while - simultaneously - expressing transparently fascist points of view in doing so.

What a horrible way to think and to be... :eyes:

I could say that I pity you - as (again, like my paranoid schizophrenic son) it seems pretty obvious that you might possibly benefit from some medications, but you are also an example of the fact that mental illness is not only caused by malfunctions within the human brain itself, but is also societally contagious.

====================

Here's what was meant by my comments what you attacked and - via your severe cognitive dysfunction - assumed were based in RACISM and SEXISM (whereby they were nothing of the sort, of course)...

Having nothing to do with any race/sex bigotry or lack thereof,
my ACTUAL observation - regarding the current evolution (or - more accurately - it's dissolution, and completely starting from scratch with something else) of T.U.B.A. - is that the I.T.E.A. version nearly totally ignores the absolute collapse of live music performance as a profession (in the US, where most of the membership subscriptions are located), while pushing harder and harder (again, in the US) at strengthening employment opportunities for those who teach these skills (mostly through government funding) - again: skills which are becoming less and less marketable.
Harvey Phillips (who I cannot imagine having been any sort of racist or sexist) always emphasized creating ~performance~ opportunities for tuba players. Creating more and more performers while simultaneously fewer and fewer performance venues exist is (an expression progressives often use) unsustainable, and creating more and more government jobs for those who train people to do jobs that don't exist is the specific classical definition of the political economic system known as fascism (while, admittedly most people have no idea what fascism actually entails, because they've never bothered to read even one scholarly article which would clearly define it for them, much less a well-written book or two explaining its history, what it entails, its many similarities another type of socialist system known as Marxism, and its epic fallacies).
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Re: definition of "brotherhood"

Post by Mark »

Colby Fahrenbacher wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 12:42 pm Because we have zero evidence to suggest that was the case.
We do have evidence to suggest it was the case: ITEA would not release the vote totals.
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graybach (Thu May 08, 2025 2:11 pm) • Schlitzz (Thu May 08, 2025 4:58 pm) • Bessonguy (Thu May 08, 2025 6:34 pm)
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