Wood Case Repair

[MiBrassFS]

The 1959 Holton 340 BBb here lives in its original old school, giant, wood hard case. Along one edge it has a bit of wear and has opened. I’m thinking epoxy might be the answer, but there’s also some pretty good wood specific glues. Those typically depend upon certain types of wood to wood contact joints. This might not meet that criteria. Another option might be something along the lines of a construction adhesive like “Liquid Nails.”

I’ll keep the class posted…

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[the elephant]

Titebond III if you ever exect to have to set it down on the pavement on a rainy day. It is waterproof. Titebond II if it *might* get a little wet, as it is water resistant. Titebond Original is NOT safe to get wet.

I really like Titebond III on plywood cases.

Wade

[MiBrassFS]

Thanks for that! Titebond 3 looks very promising. Looks easy to use, too.

[bloke]

I agree with Wade.

Titebond carpenter glue products are excellent/superior, and I actually used them when adding a log room onto my log house. I did my best to cut out the semicircles where the logs overlap at the corners using a Sawzall, but - alas - I don't have the skill to cut perfect 8 inch semicircles as can a machine at a factory that precuts those into the logs. I actually mixed up Titebond Ii with a bunch of sawdust from the logs, and used it as a caulk to fill up the little imperfections in my semicircles. It's absolutely unnoticeable, and Titebond II does NOT claim to be absolutely waterproof - as does Titebond III, but it has held up for years against torrential rains with no sign of failure on the outside of this house.

(Yeah I had to do this addition about 50% all by myself and about 50% with skilled people helping me who had never worked on a log house before, because I couldn't find anyone who had ever worked on a log house before. It was quite an experience. I'm sort of proud that it doesn't look like an addition... and it even keeps the rain out.)

I like the consistency of II better than III, but I don't see how consistency would matter with a seam that's only a quarter inch wide, and I would say with certainty that it will hold for more years than you will be walking on the earth. The completely waterproof promise of III is a salient feature.

I would discourage you from considering recovering the entire case with new tolex. There are lots of threads on lots of websites all over the Internet about people struggling to find a glue that actually holds that stuff effectively to Wood, and people who do so successfully talking about all the trouble they have to go to to get it to do so.

Those vintage shaped wood cases are absolutely worth fixing. They were made in the USA rather than Costa Rica, they are 100% plywood with no particle board, they actually fit the 6/4 Holton instruments, and there's nothing that's for sale today that is a hard case which is that compact. Had I planned on keeping one of the 345 instruments that I've owned, I would have never sold the one of those cases that I previously owned.

I'm sure that once you get everything stabilized with that excellent glue, you'll go back with Bondo and fix the missing places. If they're small enough, I'm sure you know that you can just go with Bondo, but I might be tempted to use a little piece of fiberglass cloth for the span that I see in your picture. I'm not telling you anything you don't know. You also already know that there's a Bondo product that's supposed to be designed for wood that gives a little bit more than the stuff that is designed for cars. Whatever on that. If you already have some regular Bondo, I wouldn't go out and buy the wood friendly product.

[MiBrassFS]

Good advice, me thinks. Not sure what I’ll do in the bare, missing Tolex areas. It might just get painted flat black unless I can score a bit of Tolex. These do fit really well. It’s like a giant “French” style case, too, so it’s big, but as small as practical.

[bloke]

You can find smaller amounts of tolex on eBay for sale fairly often, and the crappy cheap kind which is found on those cases is something I've found on eBay. The plastic type that you find on guitar amplifiers is even more difficult to cement to wood. I think I would suggest satin black paint rather than flat if that's the way you're going to go, and I have also discovered that if paint gets under the edges of reglued tolex, it tends to unglue it, so you might consider spraying the flat black into a dish or something and dabbing it around the edges and spraying away from the edges.

The following is something I've never tried, but here's an experiment: that zinc paint (that you can use to re-coat your gas pipes outdoors and sheet metal where the zinc coating has failed) will build up a thickness quite easily and is very run resistant. With some creative masking, I'm wondering if you could build up the wood up to the thickness of the surrounding reglued tolex, and then cover the zinc paint with satin black. It might be a stupid suggestion or it might be a genius suggestion. Good luck, if you try it.

[MiBrassFS]

I returned the epoxy I bought a few weeks ago and bought some Titebond 3 at the Home Despot. I went over to Harbor Freight a picked up some cheapo bar clamps. I figure why pay $40 for cheapo Chinese bar clamps at HD when I can buy cheapo Chinese bar clamps for $7 at HF. I also picked up a pack of flux brushes to apply the Titebond 3 with at the “dollar” store. The “dollar” store, where everything is now $1.25. What’s up with that?

[bloke]

I returned the epoxy I bought a few weeks ago and bought some Titebond 3 at the Home Despot. I went over to Harbor Freight a picked up some cheapo bar clamps. I figure why pay $40 for cheapo Chinese bar clamps at HD when I can buy cheapo Chinese bar clamps for $7 at HF. I also picked up a pack of flux brushes to apply the Titebond 3 with at the “dollar” store. The “dollar” store, where everything is now $1.25. What’s up with that?

Most everything else costs 2X verses pre-shutdown...so 1.25X is better than most.

We're paying nearly 90 cents/lb. for 45 cents/lb. ten lb. bags of chicken thigh quarters (beef...?? Forget it. I'm shooting deer...Beef is the new Persian caviar.)
gas...?? OK, around here, a bunch of it is down to $2.70 (Mississippi...some for $2.45...too far for me, unless doing pick-ups/deliveries), but that's still roughly double $1.45.
orange man? I just don't know if he will be allowed to even try to clean up all the horrible messes (regardless of whether he has any good strategies)...messes EVEN WORSE than found on my workbench.

[MiBrassFS]

Just wanted to mention that I’m also rehabbing an old wood euphonium case. It’s in better shape. Just missing one metal foot and has some relatively minor areas of loose Tolex. I destinkified it and moved on to the Tolex. I decided to give the Titebond 3 a try. Worked perfectly! Really easy to use and very secure. Good stuff, Mr. @the elephant!

Rather than trying to find another short metal foot, I think I’m just going to add 4 larger plastic ones next to the old, short metal nubs.

I haven’t started working on the 340 case.

Btw, @bloke , I notice that I can buy sample sizes of black satin finish paint at The Home Despot. Rather than spraying, I’m thinking I’m going touch up missing Tolex spots with a brush.

[York-aholic]

What about some of that "Hammered" spray paint. That might give a Tolex like texture, then overcoated with satin black...

Just a (bad?) thought.

[MiBrassFS]

What about some of that "Hammered" spray paint. That might give a Tolex like texture, then overcoated with satin black...

Just a (bad?) thought.

Not a bad thought. I figured I’ll be painting on bare wood and it would give some texture. I’m probably not going to fill and sand after gluing. A real smooth surface is probably where textured paint would do the most, I would think, which I won’t necessarily have.

[MiBrassFS]

Started the 340 case. Yowza. Long way to go…

[MiBrassFS]

Titebond 3 working like a champ.

JB Weld kwikwood working good filling in some smallish holes.

Bought some satin black paint from HD. Sample size mixed on site. Test looks really close (enough..) to Tolex.

I should have taken more “before” pictures because it seems to be coming out well. I tend to just want to get going… The whole bottom edge was loose on one side. It basically wasn’t a case anymore with that side flopping open.

It’s now a case again and the 340 could be carried in again. Still lots to do. Thinking about adding some wheels I found.

[bloke]

I'm sure you know this, but wheels only spaced as far apart as the width of the case (even a 6/4 case) require that a case be PUSHED - rather than pulled - elsewise the case will be unstable and continue to fall over. (My 6/4 Jacob Winter case must be pushed, and - last night, due to parking-and-even-drop-off-restrictions - I pushed it 1000 feet into a venue and - after the show - 1000 feet back out of the venue...and yeah, I'm getting pretty good at it, but would prefer to have not been required to master this skill.)

Also, the larger the wheels, the less vibration (as well as less falling over - EVEN WHEN pushed) will be experienced, when rough terrain is encountered.

The DEG wood case wheels of the past (large, with extended axles) were ugly, problematic when trying to not damage automobile upholstery, and subject to destruction - if checked as airline baggage), but - for daily use - were very stable and cases with those wider-base wheels could actually be pulled.

[MiBrassFS]

Ya know…

I ordered some wheels. Looking at this case, I’m thinking now that adding wheels may be a bit overly enthusiastic. It will be solid and usable, but moving it around on a couple of skate wheels may test it a bit. It is a 65 year old wood case, after all! How these are hinged is my real question. I have a folding hand cart that will provide much more support with wheels that will be further apart, too. It’s not like this will travel much anyway. i can always add wheels later if it ends up getting lots of use.

[bloke]

You might consider bolstering the corners (where wheels would be fastened) with 1/2" (hardwood) plywood...perhaps even a wrap-around, both gluing the pieces to (what's left of the) distressed-yet-repaired corners, and then (additionally) screwing those pieces of plywood onto the (basically) lauan case from the inside - and with some small-holed fender washers (??)

[MiBrassFS]

Bit of a follow up. That corner in the first post…

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[MiBrassFS]

I added a pull strap to the shoulder strap ring instead of a handle. It’s actually a dog training tab leash… I also added a lid retaining strap to prevent “flop open,” some extra large bumpers/feet similar to the ones used by MTS, some small road case wheels (just for maneuvering at location, not long distance dragging), and some corner braces. One bottom edge was open the entire length. That’s now glued, filled, and reinforced. All loose Tolex was glued down (probably 30-40%…). The entire case was painted in exterior satin black paint including any areas with missing Tolex that were bare wood (luckily only about 10-15% overall surface).

This ain’t art, it was salvage!

Will this case last another 65 years? Could be!

[MiBrassFS]

The money shot…

This is a “bac!”

[bloke]

With my brand new bass saxophone case - that also features minimal edge braces/brackets (as with that tuba case, and probably the same manufacturer - gww, which was formerly USA but is now Costa Rica), I just ordered 30 more of those braces/brackets to go on that brand new case to discourage those never-broken edges from pulling apart. I believe it's more than just abuse that pulls edges of those gww cases apart. I believe the stress from the weight adds to the failure over time.
Those can be bought more cheaply than from Allied Supply - and I have a bunch of them (random sources) already, but I personally ponied up to buy the brass ones from Allied, because they match this new case exactly.
If your repair underneath that tolex is nice and strong and can be drilled into, I'd recommend another one of those brackets there and maybe every three to four inches all the way around both sides.

The work you did looks wonderful.