iPad revisited

[Craig F]

I like cheese.

Have you tried broccoli with cheese sauce?

[russiantuba]

Before I get blocked on this outlet by a certain orchestral librarian (after buying specific approved pencils for music marking as suggested), I tried the iPad, a super large one, a decade ago. Ironically I can’t even watch YouTube on it as of 3 weeks ago because YouTube app doesn’t even support it.

Having a large collection of music for teaching purposes in electronic format, I would think this would be handy, and considered going all digital and tried it out. Also, the large set list things do have an advantage. The software was clunky, and this is before page turner things were standard. Also, if not saved on the app but in Dropbox or something that required access, couldn’t download it easy.

It seems like, with most software, it only is supported on the tablet or device in full for about 5 years (I have a 11 year old MacBook Pro with Finale 2012 that I can’t upgrade or lose finale, and can’t test Dorico or Sibelius, so in that limbo).

I even bought a daily routine for cross training, it used drones and playback charts, but was definitely was designed for iPad users. I contacted the authors after buying for a track list, to put separately, and was basically shunned for the suggestion. I printed the book, which was a total pain with the layout and such before finding out there would never be a track list published. The app it says in the description isn’t even supported a couple years after buying.

I prefer paper music with a digital backup in an emergency. Too many tech issues.


Teaching example from last week: one of my students who uses an iPad for everything (they are very responsible, use it to take notes in lessons, never an issue on what I assign, keeps practice log and suggested recordings on there, all wins) was doing an etude I assigned with a page turn. Suddenly they stopped—I had to interject and say it’s inexcusable, get a clicker or a pedal if you are going to use this, and practice with this. To be fair, just last term on a recital I got on a student who didn’t have page turns ready on paper, and had them so out of order that he had a minute pause mid piece to get them fixed.


Another observation: 99% of collaborative pianists I’ve seen are using the iPad. To me, this makes fair sense, because 1) I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen or heard them leaving the music for one departmental performance in their office and run back and 2) not have to worry about a page turner.

[russiantuba]

If we had digital parts, that could be erased or wiped from an iPad after use, we wouldn’t have digital archives of notes by Bernstein and on the parts like below for Prokofiev 5. Very interesting pencil markings.

https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/a ... 520Leonard

[bloke]

I like cheese.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1tcUjMYdoqI

[Colby Fahrenbacher]

If we had digital parts, that could be erased or wiped from an iPad after use, we wouldn’t have digital archives of notes by Bernstein and on the parts like below for Prokofiev 5. Very interesting pencil markings.

https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/a ... 520Leonard

This isn't necessarily true. By using layers, markings can be "erased" (hidden or removed from the PDF) but still preserved and archived.

[Schlitzz]

I like cheese.

Have you tried broccoli with cheese sauce?

Yes, but nothing really changed. I wasted good cheese, on, (FML), broccoli.


Have a nice day Mr Spiccoli…..

[russiantuba]

If we had digital parts, that could be erased or wiped from an iPad after use, we wouldn’t have digital archives of notes by Bernstein and on the parts like below for Prokofiev 5. Very interesting pencil markings.

https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/a ... 520Leonard

This isn't necessarily true. By using layers, markings can be "erased" (hidden or removed from the PDF) but still preserved and archived.

I would like to know how this would particularly work. Currently, groups I have played with will send the PDF parts to the players to use on the app of their choice. They don’t have to turn it back in. As @bloke mentioned, this last weekend I saw one of these in the strings with a partner. I’ve only seen this with strings without a stand partner, but I normally don’t talk to them.

Before it is mentioned, everyone, including me, are sent the files. I would mark it and it is never sent back to the librarian. The only thing sent back is paper music (or if I print it and leave it in the folder).

The only things that would get archived, is bowings and cuts. No orchestra uses that in full so I don’t think there is a system, and until I’m shown otherwise the return process, I’m going to assume the file is sent and saved on the music reading software platform.

[Colby Fahrenbacher]

It would work through a centralized digital music distribution system. Instead of emailing PDFs to musicians, the files would be stored on a server and accessed directly through specific softwares and likely an account. Rather than modifying a copy of a PDF locally, you would editing the original PDF stored on the server, and no turn-in would be required.

It's possible to do this without requiring everyone to use tablets. The appropriate infrastructure (PDF storage and software) would need to be set up, but it obviously makes more financial sense the more people use it.

For what it is worth, these solutions already exist, even if they aren't pervasive and are still relatively new technologies.

[russiantuba]

It would work through a centralized digital music distribution system. Instead of emailing PDFs to musicians, the files would be stored on a server and accessed directly through specific softwares and likely an account. Rather than modifying a copy of a PDF locally, you would editing the original PDF stored on the server, and no turn-in would be required.

It's possible to do this without requiring everyone to use tablets. The appropriate infrastructure (PDF storage and software) would need to be set up, but it obviously makes more financial sense the more people use it.

For what it is worth, these solutions already exist, even if they aren't pervasive and are still relatively new technologies.

Interesting—so any outdoor gigs would likely be a no go. I played in a symphony orchestra that did a full performance in a prison. We couldn’t bring phones, car keys, or anything electronic. All music had to be paper and I assume you couldn’t print.

The other issue with this would be the wi-fi, since to access the server. Since orchestras, except for the elite few that own their hall, and in North America, that is a very low number, you would need a separate musicians’ WiFi server, and rely on no issues. To implement this, with licensing, sounds like it would be a requirement.

Imagine going to a symphony performance and hearing “orchestra is totally unable to play due to wifi technical issues”. It is a truly interesting idea I can’t see happening in the next 50 years. However, I do think, if implemented in bands early on (like at schools that do chrome books), it might be a venture in the future.

[Colby Fahrenbacher]

No, outdoor gigs would not be a no-go. Production teams have magically figured out how to operate all of their equipment wirelessly for years, so it is not a stretch of the imagination for an orchestra to figure it out. An orchestra could create a local network for their tablets through a data hub (like a Wifi Hotspot). Even in the biggest orchestras, I would highly doubt they would be utilizing their public wifi for a tablet network, and would instead set up a private network specifically for them.

It's also entirely possible that the tablets could be run offline for the performance, with the server receiving the updated parts after the tablets return to the network. This is literally how our devices currently handle cloud storage when we lose internet and data.

In instances where digital devices are forbidden from being used, I'm sure the publishers could be worked with to either provide physical parts or allow an orchestra to print.

Could reliability be an issue? Sure, though I don't know how the reliability of these systems compare with existing systems. I've seen lights completely cut out during a concert, microphones fail to be charged beforehand, cables fail, and paper music fly across the sage.

[bloke]

Anytime I've had to play an outdoor concert - and (specifically) it ended up being a windy day, regardless of how highfalutin the ensemble, I've shown up with a fiberglass sousaphone - as I'm not about to have their music stand blown over on my twenty-something thousand dollars tuba - which they will have not agreed to repair nor replace. (I've lived long enough to see every type of music stand held down in every possible way get blown over by the wind.)
As I've admitted before, I would do my best to read off of (their) 8-1/2x11 (equivalent screen size) tablet on their music stand, because - if-and-when the wind blew it over - it wouldn't be my tablet that hit the ground, and it would only be hitting the fiberglass body of my sousaphone.

What's interesting about the music business is all the equipment that we are expected to supply for such little pay that costs so much more to purchase and maintain than most any other industry's equipment... and I'll read off of their electronic sheet music appliance, but I'm already supplying enough stuff, including uniforms and instruments that are worth more than my cars.

I understand it's at the military supplies instruments for it's musicians. New musicians in ensembles request specific models, often they are supplied for them, and then when they move on to another military ensemble or decide to not re-up, those instruments are shelved and the next person requests a certain specific model of instrument. (Over the years, I've encountered a whole bunch of military surplus Swiss-made C tubas, fwiw... from 30 years ago when they ran full-color "Rolls Royce of tubas" ads on the backs of T.U.B.A. Journals.) At least, that's what I've experienced with a military band local to me. I believe the military mindset is that recruits or draftees are basically naked human beings which are supplied with everything they are going to need to be in the military...
... again, in the private sector it doesn't work that way.

[UncleBeer]

... some gigantic big-band (or dixie-band) book being condensed down to a thin (albeit fragile) appliance, but - when I play big band jobs (though there's still the problem of them being shrunk way down in size - were it that someone spent weeks scanning all those charts and uploading them to a set of 18 tablets), the next sets' tunes are always called on breaks - at which time the players pull those tunes (leaving the massive collections under their seats, and - with small combo jobs (at least, mine) the leaders typically pre-email a tune list, there really aren't any lead sheets, and - if anyone in the small combo doesn't know one or more of the tunes on the list

Was opining chiefly about lead sheet gigs; mainly one pagers, and not much time in between.

[bloke]

@UncleBeer

I'm thinking I stole some bass-player's (semi-regular) gig...(??)
...A trumpet player called me for a (lame/Episcopal/sit-down) Mardi Gras job.
It was only him, a drummer (who didn't even sing harmony...just beat on the drums), and me...
The trumpet player sang some, and played a little 3-octave keyboard (through an under-powered amp) sometimes...

...so I had to play a bunch of "four", grab some "tailgate" (tenor harmony) pitches (to flesh things out), and play solos on every tune...

...I took the King fiberglass sousaphone, because I had no idea what I was going to be asked to do (nor what type of "Mardi Gras" job)...so I was lipping a bunch of lower C's and B's down to pitch, etc.

He must have had some confidence in me from somewhere... ...because he had himself a book on a music stand with a stand light (as well as the same for his drummer) and - for me - he had a tune list laying on the floor (not even the keys, but he played in all the customary ones).

Just before reading your post - just now, he called me about doing three Friday nights in April.
He asked me if I could additionally bring my bass rig.
I let him know that I have it for sale ( https://tubaforum.net/viewtopic.php?p=87088 ), would prefer to not be using it, and also not for no additional $$'s...
...so he's bringing me his own bass rig for me to use.

bloke "the unchallenged king of dubious gigs...but - apparently - someone's going around telling peeps that I know a bunch of tunes"

[MiBrassFS]

bloke "the unchallenged king of dubious gigs...

Here, hold my “beer…”

I once played “The Victors” as a dead guy’s casket was loaded into a hearse.

[russiantuba]

No, outdoor gigs would not be a no-go. Production teams have magically figured out how to operate all of their equipment wirelessly for years, so it is not a stretch of the imagination for an orchestra to figure it out. An orchestra could create a local network for their tablets through a data hub (like a Wifi Hotspot). Even in the biggest orchestras, I would highly doubt they would be utilizing their public wifi for a tablet network, and would instead set up a private network specifically for them.

It's also entirely possible that the tablets could be run offline for the performance, with the server receiving the updated parts after the tablets return to the network. This is literally how our devices currently handle cloud storage when we lose internet and data.

In instances where digital devices are forbidden from being used, I'm sure the publishers could be worked with to either provide physical parts or allow an orchestra to print.

Could reliability be an issue? Sure, though I don't know how the reliability of these systems compare with existing systems. I've seen lights completely cut out during a concert, microphones fail to be charged beforehand, cables fail, and paper music fly across the sage.

Things happen with microphones all the time, and when those occur, the speaker normally just speaks without and the show goes on. The system you’re referring to could render an entire ticketed event unable to play. I would say having physical copies as a backup would be ideal. When I travel for performances (mainly solo) and auditions, I have a backup file on me digitally. I wouldn’t see music publishers sending physical copies to cover instances.

A bigger issue is the “bullying” in the forcing to make others covert as Bloke mentioned. Yeah, I’ve been shamed a couple times and said I wasn’t with the times. But what Bloke brought up, I noticed the last concert in played where a string player used it. Their stand partner was forced to use it. I’m not sure who did the page turns but the next paragraph is something I do in rehearsals that paper music allows me to do better.

So if I’m sitting there and I notice a note sounds a bit off or an entrance or line isn’t exactly with the bass trombone, I look over at the part to see the note, to see the rhythmic interweaving (or to add additional cues). In terms of rehearsing, this fixes a lot without saying anything. Bass trombone does the same.

Another funny thing, is the maestro doesn’t always talk very loud when going to another piece or starting rehearsal after a break or what to start with if skipping a piece in order. Us in the brass normally just look what is open on the stands of the violas. It’s sometimes small things like these that save time, make efficient use, that gets lost as things “advance” (like the secrets to getting stains out. We have all these fancy stain removers, but grandma knowing all of the at home fixes sometimes works better and quicker)