mouthpieces used with extra-large-bore & tall/conservative-bell-diameter "kaiser" BB♭ tubas

[Doc]

It has always been my understanding that deep bowls generally work best with a real kaiser and some medium bowls being acceptable. With my B&S kaiser, I like the Solo 2pc #2/Profundo/ext ring combo the best. I had good results with the Tilz BH2, PT88, and Miraphone 42. The Laskey 30Ge is a long-time favorite of mine, but, despite good sound, clarity, agility, it wasn’t the big hammer that I was seeking. The Symphony cup sound a bit thin, and the 3pc Solo/Profundo/ext ring lacked a very small bit of... mojo... compared to the 2pc. Go figure. There is one particular German mouthpiece that seem to be used a lot over there, but the name escapes me right now.
@bort2.0 ???

[pjv]

It has always been my understanding that deep bowls generally work best with a real kaiser and some medium bowls being acceptable.

But in the long run you gotta go with what works in any situation.

Tuba's play low and are musically arranged to fill the low note spot. How much low's does a piece of music need, one might ask.
Using a smaller mpc can be great for clearing up a muddy low register.

Needless to say; blindfold test is a useful tool for making equipment choices.

[bloke]

The “Mrs. bloke Test” seems to be the most reliable of all. It’s too bad that more people cannot avail themselves of it.

I am seeking suggestions, here, of things (mostly, general cup shapes) to try, but any suggestions acted upon will then be filtered through Mrs. bloke...

...and there is no background motivation to offer a new cup to my line of components. I just don’t see the “Kaiser B-flat“ market as being particularly viable.

[iiipopes]

It has always been my understanding that deep bowls generally work best with a real kaiser and some medium bowls being acceptable.

I have always understood and my experience has been the opposite: deep funnels for smaller tubas to help with the fundamental and shallow bowls for 6/4 and "Kaiser" tubas to help with the overtones, articulation, response, tuning and projection.

On the other side of this coin, some years ago in community band I sat next to a player with a 3/4 King. He complained he couldn't get good tone out of it. I asked what mouthpiece he played: a Bach 18. I suggested a Conn Helleberg 120S for its deeper cup. He bought one, sounded great on it, and gave me the 18.

As above, each mouthpiece must be tried on each tuba to get the best combination. YMMV.

But small tuba - deep mouthpiece and large tuba - shallower mouthpiece has been what I have read in my years of tuba playing, and have experienced the same.

[bloke]

well...

I didn't purchase (despite the pursed lips and squinting eyes of Mrs. bloke...and - typically - she's been enthusiastic re: tuba acquisitions) this instrument to see how much like that of a raincatcher sousaphone (aka: CSO York-style tuba) I could make its air column resonate.

I'm seeking full-spectrum (obviously: pleasing-to-patrons' ears) resonance, combined with projection.

Germany is "Symphony-Orchestra Central", and auditioners are required to use this type of tuba (or something close, with a B-flat length).

If (??) they are wrong, they surely cannot be completely wrong...and I suspect they are not wrong.

but bloke...It doesn't fit in my car...

yeah...but it also ain't yours...and it would fit in your car (front seat passenger floor - vertical - w/seat belt, or backseat - horizontal. If you have only a two-seater car, not only are you probably not a tuba player, but you are probably somewhat wealthy, as the insurance is considerably higher on two-seater cars...
...and watch the "Repair" forum, for when I cut this tuba's bell and make it detachable...NOT.

[bort2.0]

Hey wait... It *doesn't* fit in my car (I believe that was my biggest concern with this tuba). Four seater car, and ironically, German.

It probably would fit in the front seat, but then where does my wife sit? Also, 2x car seats in the back kind of erases any sense of "room" in the car.

Worst part... There's really no logic in my statement anyway, since there is nowhere for me to play anyway, especially not something requiring a car.

@Doc, I'm drawing a blank too, beyond the Hilgers WH-B2 or the PT-88. Maybe @joshealejo can let us know...? He knows a good amount of the German Kaiser tradition as well.

[Doc]

But in the long run you gotta go with what works in any situation.

Definitely.

Tuba's play low and are musically arranged to fill the low note spot. How much low's does a piece of music need, one might ask.
Using a smaller mpc can be great for clearing up a muddy low register.

This is true, although it was not necessary for me.

Needless to say; blindfold test is a useful tool for making equipment choices.

My wife listens and describes the differences. I also record my trials and do numerous A/B comparisons. It really helps to hear it from the audience's perspective.

I have always understood and my experience has been the opposite: deep funnels for smaller tubas to help with the fundamental and shallow bowls for 6/4 and "Kaiser" tubas to help with the overtones, articulation, response, tuning and projection.

But small tuba - deep mouthpiece and large tuba - shallower mouthpiece has been what I have read in my years of tuba playing, and have experienced the same.

This is accepted by many, especially in the American approach to playing tuba, as generally true (which, IMHO, is what we've been told to believe, although it's not always the absolute truth; just as elitists have told us to believe CC/F is required if you're serious ), however, a true kaiser is the notable exception to that rule. If you really want to harness a kaiser's full potential, do not exclude deep bowls in your trials to find the right match with you and the instrument. Try the widest variety possible and then find the one that suits you, the tuba, and your goals. Of course, players have different faces, abilities, skills, desires, concepts, needs, etc., so no certain mouthpiece or style of mouthpiece is a guarantee. On the other hand, sticking only to "what we're told" can be incredibly counterproductive (not implying that you are doing that). Had I an open mind and honest ears in times past, I might not have passed up tubas (and other things) that were actually the best choice - There's an unbelievable Alex 164 BBb out there somewhere with my name still on it. The goal being, as much as one is able, to ultimately rule nothing out in the pursuit of the right match. It's ok to think outside our own box and give something a whirl - you might be surprised. Or not. And the TFFJ all stood up and said, "YMMV!"

It's a blessing and a curse that there are tons of mouthpieces out there to try: With all those choices, we are bound to find something that works well. But there are TONS of choices, none of which are pocket-change-cheap, so, understandably, the trial process might not venture too far beyond the players comfort zone.

The “Mrs. bloke Test” seems to be the most reliable of all. It’s too bad that more people cannot avail themselves of it.

I didn't know that was an option. I missed some opportunities! Mrs. Doc will have to continue to suffice.

I am seeking suggestions, here, of things (mostly, general cup shapes) to try, but any suggestions acted upon will then be filtered through Mrs. bloke...

Smart fella.

BTW, I have 3-4 other mouthpieces that I'll send you if you'd ever like to try them. I'm fond of blokepieces and that #2 rim , so I'm not using them.

...and there is no background motivation to offer a new cup to my line of components. I just don’t see the “Kaiser B-flat“ market as being particularly viable.

It's a niche market, especially in the US. But... with the many blokepiece options and combinations available, folks ought to be able to find something that works.

[Doc]

Hey wait... It *doesn't* fit in my car (I believe that was my biggest concern with this tuba). Four seater car, and ironically, German.

It probably would fit in the front seat, but then where does my wife sit? Also, 2x car seats in the back kind of erases any sense of "room" in the car.

Worst part... There's really no logic in my statement anyway, since there is nowhere for me to play anyway, especially not something requiring a car.

@Doc, I'm drawing a blank too, beyond the Hilgers WH-B2 or the PT-88. Maybe @joshealejo can let us know...? He knows a good amount of the German Kaiser tradition as well.

BRUH... you take your wife and kids to all your rehearsals and gigs???

[bloke]

BRUH... you take your wife and kids to all your rehearsals and gigs???

yeah...That seems foreign to me, as well...

Mrs. bloke couldn't possibly be less interested in sitting (doing nothing) through me working (aka "gigs").

She has her own work to do.

' the most recent posting in the "Media" forum...She wasn't there,
and (sensibly) was at home relaxing...after working hard all day.

I downloaded it from my boss' email, and listened once (prior to uploading).
She walked past (not stopping) and remarked, "hm".

[bort2.0]

BRUH... you take your wife and kids to all your rehearsals and gigs???

yeah...That seems foreign to me, as well...

Not what I meant...

We do travel as a pack most of the time, but there are limits. My wife goes (went) to nearly all of my shows. Never a rehearsal, that would be silly.

I think the point was this:
* Car seats are a huge pain in the as s to install and remove. Those SOB's are in there and I'm not taking them out.
* Need to leave the front seat open, so that if Mrs. Bort does want to come along with me when it's tuba time, it's not a problem.
* For things like TubaChristmas, which are kids plus Mrs. Bort plus tuba... everything has to fit in the car, without issue.

Dreadful realization this morning:
I stopped by the store to pick up some 48" light bulb tubes this morning. They fit in the trunk pretty easily. So with a conservative bell diameter, maybe the old 190 would have fit anyway. Good news is, the Alexander fits a whole lot better.

[djwpe]

Hey wait... It *doesn't* fit in my car (I believe that was my biggest concern with this tuba). Four seater car, and ironically, German.

It probably would fit in the front seat, but then where does my wife sit? Also, 2x car seats in the back kind of erases any sense of "room" in the car.

Worst part... There's really no logic in my statement anyway, since there is nowhere for me to play anyway, especially not something requiring a car.

@Doc, I'm drawing a blank too, beyond the Hilgers WH-B2 or the PT-88. Maybe @joshealejo can let us know...? He knows a good amount of the German Kaiser tradition as well.

German cars/German tubas;

Reminds me when I bought a BMW 3 series wagon in 2010 and got to 99%, and I told the salesman that I needed to come back with my tuba to make sure it fit before I put money down. The old stovepipe 186 fit crossways under the privacy cover and I bought the car. I got rid of it because the ride on the run-flats was like sitting on an orange crate in the back of a van.

Volkswagen/Bosch paid for my Hagen with the dieselgate settlement and I get to keep the car that fits said Hagen behind the rear seat.

Don

[donn]

So with a conservative bell diameter, maybe the old 190 would have fit anyway.

I didn't have a car at the time, but mine was a hell of a lot easier to bring on the bus than my bell front Holton 109, or in general fit or carry anywhere.

[bloke]

So many newer-model tubas, these days, seem to be approx. 37" tall, that most of them fit in the back area of today's most-all-of-them-look-just-about-the-same/more-or-less cars.

...but any tuba - in just a bag against the hard back seat back rests (and that's me, too) will not fare very well in a wreck.

Though a bit weird (to most of us) a tuba in a bag, vertical, resting on the front/passenger floor, with a seat belt, will probably fare the best in a wreck, due to the seat belt and (if you've got some weight of the tuba pushing down on the seat - for the sensors to detect) air bag deployment.

[bort2.0]

Didn't Roger Lewis have a bad car accident with a tuba in the back seat several years ago... Which may have helped save him from severe injury?

[bloke]

Didn't Roger Lewis have a bad car accident with a tuba in the back seat several years ago... Which may have helped save him from severe injury?

...so you're inquiring as to whether you properly recall that the tuba was credited as being a "crumple zone"...(??)

bloke "laughing at the suggestion, and not at the wreck"

[iiipopes]

Didn't Roger Lewis have a bad car accident with a tuba in the back seat several years ago... Which may have helped save him from severe injury?

Roger's account, about 2/3 the way down the page:
http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic.php ... ar#p213298

[bloke]

Didn't Roger Lewis have a bad car accident with a tuba in the back seat several years ago... Which may have helped save him from severe injury?

Roger's account, about 2/3 the way down the page:
http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic.php ... ar#p213298

Are you certain that you sent us to the right place...??

[iiipopes]

Didn't Roger Lewis have a bad car accident with a tuba in the back seat several years ago... Which may have helped save him from severe injury?

Roger's account, about 2/3 the way down the page:
http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic.php ... ar#p213298

Are you certain that you sent us to the right place...??

Keep reading and you will get to:
"Yes, the avatar is a photo of the F tuba that saved my life back in April when the Ford Focus rental car I was in was hit by a semi doing 70 mph and I was stopped. The horn has been to the factory and been repaired and plays incredibly, but I owe my life to that horn, some luck, and someone watching over me. It was crushed flat - through the Miraphone hard case - by my back. I'm doing just fine."

[martyneilan]

The Mirafphfone 190 used to ship with a C4. I would think your solo mouthpiece with the right backbore would work well. An original Conn2 also worked fairly well, and even better slightly opened up - aka your Imperial.

[Dan Tuba]

Bach 24AW