(obsolete) 3-valve compensating B♭ tubas/euphoniums are more school-useful than (legion-built) 4-valve non-compensating

[bloke]

maybe not for YOUR use, but these observations pertain to SCHOOL use...you know: where the VAST MAJORITY of ownership of these things lies

3-valve compensating:
> 1-2-3 B and E are close to in-tune.
> No pitches below low E are "on the instrument".
> The overall weight is less than with a 4-valve non-compensating otherwise equivalent instrument, and there are considerably fewer precision mechanical devices on board, which would otherwise be subject to damage.

4-valve non-compensating:
> 1-2-3 is unusable (well-other than for marching noise...and if only played in passing), and 2-4 is still quite sharp.
> Low E♭ is either sharp or flat, depending on fingering, and most all school-owned tubas do not feature fast-operating slides (even if front-action).
> Low D sorta works with 2-3-4 (but how often does it appear in school band music?)
> Any other three-valve or 4-valve combination (1-3-4, 1-2-4, 1-2-3-4 etc., though they may "roughly resemble" some pitch, and some can be "lipped" this-way-or-that) is out-of-tune for anything.
> Practically speaking (as a very experienced repair person) MANY students NEVER use the 4th valve anyway, as MANY 4th rotors/pistons - and related slides - are very often lime-stuck.

[iiipopes]

YES!!!

I have said this for years. I used to own a Besson 3-valve comp BBb tuba, and I currently have a B&H 3-valve comp euph. In most school bands, and many college bands, and almost all community bands, where rarely, if ever, is anything below concert E nat or F is scored or played, then I agree: a 3-valve comp is the superior instrument.

The kicker is that since 3rd valve is tuned "dead" because the comp loops take care of 2+3 and 1+3 being in tune, you play concert low D's and G's with 3rd valve alone, so that you can have all the notes played with 1st and 2nd valves alone in tune and not compromised, as they are on both 4-valve non-comp and, surprisingly, on 4-valve comp instruments, as with a 4-valve comp, you must play the G's and D's 1+2 so they tend to ride sharp if you have 1st and 2nd valves tuned "dead" for the respective Eb - E nat and Ab - A nat notes.

[tubaing]

I wish the manufacturers would stop making conventional 3 valve tubas for "student models"

[bloke]

As a taxpayer – and as someone who sees how they are treated – I wish that’s
~all~ they would buy.

[GC]

Agree 100%. And the stuffiness problems that come with 4th valve combinations on 3+1 horns just aren't there with 3-valve compensators.

[tofu]

.

[bloke]

Mostly, I'm just trying to send Jonathan down another rabbit hole...

[marccromme]

Yes. Totally agree. I did own a New Standard 3 valve compensated Eb tuba, which was very nice and easy to tune in tune on all valve combinations. 123 being slightly sharp, but manageable. Sold it as I needed the full range of a 5 valve instrument, for the lower part of the Eb voice in brass band. Should have kept it for marching. Now I have a Yamaha 321 Eb tuba for marching, and 24 is annoyingly sharp. I'll don't make the same mistake with my Hirsbrunner 3 valve compensated Bariton, I'll keep that one. Really nice concept.

[donn]

An ordinary 3 valve tuba should be fine for school, assuming the tuba is reasonably accommodating in pitch production, and assuming the wee ones can absorb the idea of pressing two valves at the same time. Is the euphonium more demanding in this respect?

[iiipopes]

An ordinary 3 valve tuba should be fine for school, assuming the tuba is reasonably accommodating in pitch production, and assuming the wee ones can absorb the idea of pressing two valves at the same time. Is the euphonium more demanding in this respect?

So long as the students playing them are taught the conventional and traditional means of setting slides on a 3-valve non-comp instrument, as I was taught forty-five years ago as a freshman souzy player in high school marching band:
1) tune the open bugle, splitting the difference if the octaves don't line up
2) tune 2nd valve a couple of cents flat
3) tune the 1st valve a couple more cents flat
4) check 1+2 to split the difference as a couple of cents sharp, readjust 1 and/or 2 accordingly,
5) pull 3 so that 2+3 is slightly flat and 1+3 is slightly sharp
6) and whether or not the slides are where a student can learn to "ride throttle" on sharp low notes and flat fifth partials, and most importantly, teach them to blow the pitch, not just push the buttons, for example, lipping down 1+3 below the staff C, and lipping up 2nd space C so the octaves are in tune.

Later, such things as 1+3 for bottom of the staff F or 1+2 for mid line D, etc., as needed, can be taught, but these are the bassics (pun intended).

Concerning the euph, my band director taught tuba to 5th and 6th graders with a euph, reading tuba notation, understanding the actual pitch was an octave higher than written, then in junior high switched them to a souzy on a Wenger chair so they didn't have to shoulder the weight, even being a fiberglass King.