POLL ADDED !!! - Holton BB-345 twin-spin (first actual picture on p.2)

[bloke]

Conn’s are OK.
Lots of folks love ‘em.

Thinking about this…

I believe the Conn 2xJ (and likely the 3xJ) offer a fairly good representation of “big tuba sound” with a relatively small learning curve. The other 6/4 tuba designs like the 345 take a bit more care in learning the ins and outs of the response. But in the end, the 345 (or other similar designs) offer a bit “more” of the big tuba sound across the register.

Different target audiences, I guess.

The Holton is a lot more expensive, and with the one-piece bell and front valves has a lot more visual credibility. Nobody is going to show up to orchestra rehearsal with a 20J!

When I've bought 345's they've not been expensive, but their condition (most of the time - other than the one I'm currently fixing up to sell - an exception, but I paid more for it) would have scared off nearly every other potential buyer.

[tubaing]

Smashed 6/4 upper bows require a bunch of hand work; they're larger than many 3/4 tuba bottom bows, and not reachable by a "dent machine".

Joe, do you mind telling us what "hand work" entails?

[bloke]

Smashed 6/4 upper bows require a bunch of hand work; they're larger than many 3/4 tuba bottom bows, and not reachable by a "dent machine".

Joe, do you mind telling us what "hand work" entails?

long rods with curved threaded ends with attachments which burnish from the inside...and some use of magnets...and rounding rings...and hammering down little spots with small hammers, etc...

Again: There's no way it's going to fit on a "dent machine".

[York-aholic]

Again: There's no way it's going to fit on a "dent machine".

Sure it will, you just have to think outside the box, as some “repair person” did on these two bows of my York 712 (admittedly only 4/4).

3C38C623-258E-4EB0-A611-403B0068F01F.jpeg (26.37 KiB) Viewed 2274 times

[bloke]

cute...
sadly, probably not unique

[bloke]

If I can get the entire tapered bugle free of every bit of lacquer, free of every dent, all soldered together, and this large upper bow (along with its guard wire and large-side ferrule) reattached to it today, I shall have considered that I got a good bit done. If I get it done fairly early, that would be an amazing bonus.

Bells are not the most difficult thing to straighten out, and – once the bell is straightened out – I’ll have a lot of the instrument that can be stuck back together, and it will start to look like something.

Finally - though tedious - a fairly large percentage of valveset (so-called) “blue-printing” involves sit-down work.

This instrument’s mouthpipe tube needs to be unscrewed-up (as it was bent to accommodate a jackass assembly job in the past), but I think that will go well - and should be not difficult. I’m not dealing with that until the valveset is in place, so I can see where the mouthpipe needs to start and stop.

[the elephant]

Seeing this sort of work makes me sad…

[bloke]

re: butchered upper bow...

If no one offered a replacement to toss my way...
...I would remove all of the lead-based solder, use a large tapered "ball" and work with the two cut ends until they lined up perfectly, spend about ten minutes securely propping up the two "halves" - articulating just so and perfectly aligned, and - with controlled heat - silver-braze those segments back together.

It IS do-able. It just requires attention to detail and control.

...or (if a school-owned tuba), I might say, "...so what do you want done...It plays, doesn't it?"

[LargeTuba]

Again: There's no way it's going to fit on a "dent machine".

Sure it will, you just have to think outside the box, as some “repair person” did on these two bows of my York 712 (admittedly only 4/4).



3C38C623-258E-4EB0-A611-403B0068F01F.jpeg

That's disgusting

[bloke]

Maybe it's part ego (ie. "this is going to have my name attached to it"), and part guilt complex ("1960's upbringing: Don't stop until you have done your best, and what you charge for your work has nothing to do with the quality of your work...YOU are in charge of the quality."...as the Dr. Spock self-esteem-means-everything "baby" book had not yet completely taken over societal attitudes)...

...but (as I reinstalled the upper bow guard wire and the large-side ferrule to the upper bow) I continued to "pick at" the dent removal job of the upper bow (yes: considerably more time that the $$$$'s budgeted...but whatever)...so it looks better than planned, but that can't be a bad thing, eh?
Actually, the dents were completely removed, but I "played around" with rubbing-in (or out) "print-through" from the rough interior surface to the smooth (belt-sanded at the Holton factory) exterior surface.

for the instrument's owner:
In my "random $h!t", I found (both: BRASS) tubes in BOTH sizes/sides (perfect fits) for your main slide - to extend BOTH inside slide tubes' lengths.

[York-aholic]

re: butchered upper bow...

If no one offered a replacement to toss my way...
...I would remove all of the lead-based solder, use a large tapered "ball" and work with the two cut ends until they lined up perfectly, spend about ten minutes securely propping up the two "halves" - articulating just so and perfectly aligned, and - with controlled heat - silver-braze those segments back together.

It IS do-able. It just requires attention to detail and control.

...or (if a school-owned tuba), I might say, "...so what do you want done...It plays, doesn't it?"

Yes, that’s what I had done (brazed back together). I bought a 700 ( 3v top action recording bell) hoping to use the bows, but they were enough different to be a no go.

It was originally a San Diego Unified School District (about 1.5 hours away from me) horn but when I bought it, it had migrated to Illinois.

Ok, I’ll avoid further hijackings! Sorry...

[bloke]

PLEASE POST ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING - ANYTHING AT ALL, IN THIS THREAD.

THE WAY THAT OUR MINDS WORK IS THAT WE READ/SEE SOMETHING, AND IT REMINDS US OF SOMETHING ELSE AND/OR OF PAST/CURRENT EXPERIENCES.

IT'S FINE FOR OTHERS TO CHIDE ME FOR GOING OFF ON TANGENTS IN OTHER THREADS (THOUGH I'VE NEVER BEEN CHIDED ABOUT IT BY A SITE OWNER NOR MONITOR), BUT MY THREADS ARE NOT MY THREADS, AND - RATHER - ARE LIBERTARIAN/STREAM-OF-CONSCIOUSNESS SITE-OWNER OWNED THREADS.

THANK-YOU, AND PLEASE RESUME POSTING YOUR RANDOM THOUGHTS AND OBSERVATIONS BELOW, IN THE PROVIDED TEXT BOXES.

PLEASE ENJOY THIS HUMOROUS ANIMATED GIF, WHILE CONJURING UP A CLEVER REJOINDER:



bloke "hijack-schmijack"

[bloke]

There's good.
There's fast.
There's good and fast.
There's damn good.
There's real fast.
There's also astonishingly good and lightning fast.
(Things went well.)
' time for a shower, an episode of Hogan's Heroes, maybe some Johnnie Walker (??), and sleep.




Next week - once I get this one to the "bell on" stage, I'm going to see about (??) catching up the OTHER BB-345 to the same place.

[Yorkboy]

There's good.
There's fast.
There's good and fast.
There's damn good.
There's real fast.
There's also astonishingly good and lightning fast.
(Things went well.)
' time for a shower, an episode of Hogan's Heroes, maybe some Johnnie Walker (??), and sleep.




Next week - once I get this one to the "bell on" stage, I'm going to see about (??) catching up the OTHER BB-345 to the same place.

Beautiful.

Were you able to de-dent the inner branches without disassembly?

[bloke]

yup.

I know I haven’t show many pictures of the OTHER BB-345...

- Its bell and large upper bow are already completely ready.
- As seen in previous pictures, the bottom bow has a good start.
- The inner bows are actually in better condition than those on this tuba were.
- The valve sections (comparing the two instruments) are about equally issue-bound, but the pistons (on the one that I’m going to be selling) have been rebuilt better than new, whereas the pistons on this customer’s instrument are in good shape… not perfect - but plenty good, and the tuba’s owner is completely happy with the way they are now.

The magic marker diamond (on the upper bow) is a place where I located that an original brace had been…before the instrument was “repaired” and the valve section was re-mounted cockeyed with a bunch of Conn 2XJ/K-style braces. There is actually still one of those Conn braces underneath that main tuning slide outside slide tube in the picture, but it’s just there holding things safely solid (for now). All of the rest of the braces on this assembly are original, and in original positions.
The tuba’s owner needs to thank York-aholic for some genuine Holton brace flanges that are going to take the place (except in better places) of those Conn brace flanges.

[Tubajug]

Great work bloke!

I saw the strap rings and the first word that came to mind was "petite." They just look tiny compared to those big fat bows.

[bloke]

I put big honkin’ strap rings on the compact Holton that I built for myself, because I actually plan to use them occasionally.
The small strap rings on these 6/4 instruments should be put back in place, because - when someone rests the instrument on its back side flat down, these things will contact a surface first.

Great work bloke!

I saw the strap rings and the first word that came to mind was "petite." They just look tiny compared to those big fat bows.

[Yorkboy]

Again: There's no way it's going to fit on a "dent machine".

Sure it will, you just have to think outside the box, as some “repair person” did on these two bows of my York 712 (admittedly only 4/4).



3C38C623-258E-4EB0-A611-403B0068F01F.jpeg

I can’t even begin to imagine why someone would do something like that.

[bloke]

Some relatively inexperienced person may encounter an upper bow which is nearly crushed flat, and find what they see to be daunting.

[the elephant]

Hijacking because it seems to be the thing to do in this community…

It IS do-able. It just requires attention to detail and control.

Listen to him. This can be done for you by a competent tech, but in a lot of cases, you will have to nearly beg them. This takes some time and a lot of concentration that could be used to knock out one or two customer instruments. Some very good techs would just say no, that you should just ferrule it together. That is the easy way, but that looks like a$$ and really is for school horns that will end up crushed in the same spot in another year or two. But it can be done.

I work in a freaking carport and could do that. In a real shop…? Do not dismay.

My comment above (about the pic making me sad) was more about how many times I have been *required* to fix things this way because that is what the store owner told me to do, on beater school horns, over and over. I hated it, but it paid the bills and kept the old man off my back. But each one really did make me a little sad, cutting a bow/branch in half like that. Of course, they always played great after this work was done (since they did not play at all when brought to us), but they looked really terrible to me. Again, it is sad.

Do what Joe recommended. It works and will look much better in the end.