Bending mouthpiece shank

[Mary Ann]

On the "old" forum someone had given me name(s?) of people who could bend a mouthpiece shank so that its angle was right for how my face is built. I'd like to get that info again if anyone remembers. TYIA.

[2nd tenor]

By chance a friend of mine was using an item that might help you at a rehearsal a few days ago. The angled pieces come pre-shaped new and can be bought in the U.K. here: https://www.trevadamusic.co.uk/brass/ac ... eraz&pgn=4
No doubt they are sold in the States too. My friend primarily uses hers as an extension piece for when she’s marching, she was using the small shank extension piece in a Besson Imperial.

This might help too: http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15131 . Basically altering the mouthpiece is expensive and difficult to do - see the last answer in that thread - and you have to know exactly what angle you want before you start.

[Mary Ann]

Thanks. The tuning bit would be great if I didn't already have the tuning slide almost all the way in. I'd be flat as a pancake. I think, though, that there may be a local guy who could move the leadpipe if it comes to that. He fixed some things that "pros" messed up in the past, just because he's smart. (famous custom maker charged local horn player $1200 to rebuild her sticky valves, did not fix them, and the local guy found a burr and fixed it for free. Of course he's a TUBA player.) Right now it's the euph, and since I can get the bow right snug against my belly and lean the bell end out, the angle is not all that bad, but if I manage to get back to a tuba I can't put the bow in my lap and will need to do some serious something to fix the angle. I have a picture of me playing the NSTar, my neck is in an awful position, and no wonder my neck hurt.

[bloke]

If it’s worth it to you, a machinist can take a cylinder of cold rolled steel - that may be an inch in diameter and a couple of inches long, drill a pilot hole, and then work a Jarno taper reamer (in the size range of a tuba mouthpiece shank) into it as if it’s a big fat bulky steel mouthpiece receiver. That appliance should be able to be slid all the way up to the fat end of the mouthpiece‘s shank, and snug on to the mouthpiece’s receiver tightly, right about there.
Once slipped in place and reasonably tight, someone should be able to knock the hell out of it sideways with a large rawhide mallet (quite a few blows) until the shank is bent over to your liking, and probably would leave the mouthpiece shank exterior reasonably true. There’s no guarantee that the mouthpiece wouldn’t crack, and ovaling the interior to some extent is unavoidable.
To render the number of blows and the hardness of the blows less severe, it would help to anneal the brass and the mouthpiece just above the shank, but of course that would destroy the silver plating - at least in that area of the mouthpiece.

[donn]

Might make sense to try it with a Kelly polycarbonate mouthpiece. Ideally, you could do the work with the shank inserted into the receiver - just carefully keep that receiver cool, with an ice pack or something. I guess I'd start with a heat gun, with a nozzle accessory to focus the hot air on the shank. Buy a half dozen mouthpieces, so you can ruin a couple and keep working. My guess is that there may be a very narrow window between solid and liquid phases.

Don't like Kelly mouthpieces? Well, so what - you won't like your favorite mouthpiece after you've stretched the throat, and who knows, you might like the Kelly better afterwards.

[Mary Ann]

Once a manufacturer deviates from 0 degrees, it seems like all else is a problem (in terms of customer specifics), although a 30 degree bend is probably ballpark for most applications.

That brings me to the notion that this would be best done on a mouthpiece that has a separate shank/throat like Houser (@bloke) designs do or Doug Elliot. The modifications could be made without the cup involved and any deformation of the throat could likely be worked a bit easier.

That’s probably the route I’d take given the situation.

[BuddyRogersMusic]

I've seen a few mouthpieces that Dan Oberloh has cut to alter the angle. Super clean work (like anyone would expect otherwise from Dan) and it looks like it came that way. I'd suggest contacting him for more details. It would be helpful if you knew the approximate (or more precise) angle that would suit you best.

[bloke]

With a cut, you will end up with a sharp interior angle in the back-bore.
With a bend, you will end up with an ovaled area in the back-bore.

I would recommend *some (??) sort of alternate tack - other than bending a mouthpiece - for improved ergonomics.
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...Some trombone players have insisted that I bend their mouthpieces for them, and I (very reluctantly) did it for a couple of people.

For others, I've made (as just an example of "some sort of alternate tack") *1" wider playing slide bows (easily compensated for by pushing the main slide in 1/2") - to get their big-ol' heads spaced a comfortable distance away from their bell sections' goosenecks.

I am not unsympathetic to your struggles, but I'm just (albeit a bit matter-of-factly) trying to point out consequences for various choices.

[Mary Ann]

Might make sense to try it with a Kelly polycarbonate mouthpiece. Ideally, you could do the work with the shank inserted into the receiver - just carefully keep that receiver cool, with an ice pack or something. I guess I'd start with a heat gun, with a nozzle accessory to focus the hot air on the shank. Buy a half dozen mouthpieces, so you can ruin a couple and keep working. My guess is that there may be a very narrow window between solid and liquid phases.

Don't like Kelly mouthpieces? Well, so what - you won't like your favorite mouthpiece after you've stretched the throat, and who knows, you might like the Kelly better afterwards.

I use a Kelly 5G in the euph (with blue painter's tape on the shank, no less) and find it works perfectly fine for me. I have never tried a Kelly tuba mpc because the PT 64 I have works fine for everything so far; don't know what Kelly would have that would be close. I have tried a variety of tuba mpcs and what I'm using has been the clear winner no matter which tuba I'm playing. Even when I tried Sam Pilafian's CC, he commented right away, "That is a good mouthpiece for that tuba."

[Mary Ann]

I've seen a few mouthpieces that Dan Oberloh has cut to alter the angle. Super clean work (like anyone would expect otherwise from Dan) and it looks like it came that way. I'd suggest contacting him for more details. It would be helpful if you knew the approximate (or more precise) angle that would suit you best.

I figured that if it came to that, I could set up a horizontal something on the wall behind me, play the pbone in front of it, get a friend to take a photo, and then measure the angle in the photograph with a protractor. I have a friend whose precision is such that he would do a good job of taking the photo (driving me nuts in the process, but oh well.)

Dan Oberloh is a fine recommendation too.

[Mary Ann]

With a cut, you will end up with a sharp interior angle in the back-bore.
With a bend, you will end up with an ovaled area in the back-bore.

I would recommend *some (??) sort of alternate tack - other than bending a mouthpiece - for improved ergonomics.
----------------------------------------------

...Some trombone players have insisted that I bend their mouthpieces for them, and I (very reluctantly) did it for a couple of people.

For others, I've made (as just an example of "some sort of alternate tack") *1" wider playing slide bows (easily compensated for by pushing the main slide in 1/2") - to get their big-ol' heads spaced a comfortable distance away from their bell sections' goosenecks.

I am not unsympathetic to your struggles, but I'm just (albeit a bit matter-of-factly) trying to point out consequences for various choices.

Obviously I'm trying to not alter the tuba itself very much....and I'll repeat that generally I have the tuning slide almost all the way in. Post-dystonia, when I had to re-learn to play, I learned to get my pitch with air instead of chop muscles. I sound way better, it carries way better, but the tuning slide is pretty far in most of the time. On the horn it was ALL the way in for quite a while until I recovered enough to use just a bit of chops.

Side note: since I mentioned dystonia, some of you may remember the back-and-forths I had with Doug Elliot about that, he being convinced that dystonia does not exist except the person is not playing with the correct embouchure type for their face. Well, I opted to take a lesson from him (which I enjoyed; I liked his approach of trying everything to see what works for the person) and....I am not and was not using the wrong embouchure type for my face. I rest my case about dystonia. It is an unfortunate brain path problem that does go with personality type, and I am that type. Perfectionistic in the wrong way, trying to control the body with the left brain.

[Mary Ann]

Many thanks for all the suggestions. If I end up with a tuba again, first I will see if the local smart guy combined with the tuba ergonomics can change the angle of the lead pipe without destroying anything. Second in line would be Dan Oberloh to see what he can do. I am not terribly equipment sensitive although I can certainly tell the difference between a dog and a race horse.