Which horn to bring?

[Tubajug]

Hi everyone! I know this is completely up to me, but I thought it would be fun to see what discussion we could get going.

I was invited to play with some folks who do a reading session of big band music once a month and was debating what horn to bring. Here's what I've got:

King 2341
King Eb frankentuba with 5 valves
Martin Medium Eb helicon (3 valves)
Pan American BBb sousaphone
Martin Mammoth with recording bell
- I would need to make (or borrow?) some bits for it and install a water key or two and install two bell screws.

Lend me your opinions!

[bloke]

…so are you covering the fourth trombone book, or some special tuba book featured in some special arrangements?

Particularly if covering the 4th trombone book, trombones play some really short notes/sounds in big bands. Which of those tubas is capable of making the shortest “staccatissimo” types of sounds, that would best match the trombones?
(This “short sounds” capability - even more than “sounding like a big trombone” - is one of the greatest advantages of using a cimbasso with a trombone section.)

[Three Valves]

For stage presence, the Mammoth.

[Tubajug]

…so are you covering the fourth trombone book, or some special tuba book featured in some special arrangements?

Particularly if covering the 4th trombone book, trombones play some really short notes/sounds in big bands. Which of those tubas is capable of making the shortest “staccatissimo” types of sounds, that would best match the trombones?
(This “short sounds” capability - even more than “sounding like a big trombone” - is one of the greatest advantages of using a cimbasso with a trombone section.)

I'm not sure, honestly. He said he needed a tuba player, so I assumed it would be bass parts.

[bloke]

… I guess if you are covering the bass book in the rhythm section, that’s a completely different choice, yes?

…so are you covering the fourth trombone book, or some special tuba book featured in some special arrangements?

Particularly if covering the 4th trombone book, trombones play some really short notes/sounds in big bands. Which of those tubas is capable of making the shortest “staccatissimo” types of sounds, that would best match the trombones?
(This “short sounds” capability - even more than “sounding like a big trombone” - is one of the greatest advantages of using a cimbasso with a trombone section.)

I'm not sure, honestly. He said he needed a tuba player, so I assumed it would be bass parts.

[hrender]

Even if they're just going to play charts which originally used tuba, that's a potentially broad list (think Dixieland to Gil Evans to Howard Johnson). If you're going to be covering bass lines or 4th trombone, who knows. I'd suggest the 2341 since it's the more general-purpose horn, maybe the Eb if you think they're going to give you some higher parts.

[KingTuba1241X]

Traditional 1930's-40's Swing band charts: Bell Front 2341 (if you have one) or 6/4 style something
Modern Staccato short notes 4th trombone style: E flat or Cimbasso
ACTUAL bass part with walking bass lines: LEARN TO PLAY BASS GUITAR or STRING BASS

[bloke]

agreement with the last post, and - if a 1930s “hotel” band - probably a sousaphone, and – if authentic-appearing – sitting on a sousaphone stand - with the bell turned to the front.

[the elephant]

If this is a 20 piece big band:

If you are doubling the bass then the Mammoth. If covering a trombone book then the smallest one. If an actual tuba book, like much of Dee Barton's Kenton arrangements then the 2341 (or which ever upright belled King BBb it is you listed). I talked to Dee about these parts when he came home to Mississippi to retire and formed a fantastic big band which I was lucky enough to play in. He said simply that he did not like most recording bell tubas because they "blend with nothing on the stage" but that he did like really big, fat tubas. I brought a Conn 25J and he did not like that. I brought my Alexander and he said, "YES! BIG AND FAT LIKE THAT ONE!" So whatever, Dee. I used the Alex for my time in that band before he passed away.

As for other composers or arrangers' tastes, who knows. Take what you know you can sound really solid in and play very well in tune. All else will work itself out, meaning that if it is not the right tuba for this gig you can learn from that and use something else in the future. Any time we enter into a genre or music where the tuba is not normally present we need to have the best time, pitch and clarity we can provide the band, so that we get invited back. Take the horn you can play the best on. (If you get there and he hands you a trombone book, know that 5th trombone is always the low voice, but that a 4th book is a utility book where you are the bottom voice most of the time but where you will be up inside the other three on occasion. You may have to read some of that down, but it will sound weird having an inner harmony voice an octave below its "nest", so just do your best and have fun.

If this is a speakeasy type of band playing proto-jazz from the early 1920s:

I would take a fat-boy recording tuba in BBb and keep to the bottom of the staff. They want a bass to dance to, not a showman on a trapeze. In this setting you might only have lead sheets and not a written part. For 1920s early jazz for dancing stick to a two-beat unless told to walk. In groups like this from the later 1930s into WWII a four-beat is still not for everything, but is called for a lot more often. Try to catch some of the chord extensions, but I and V will always work fine if you are not sure.

[bloke]

I am really tickled that you got to work with Dee.
Before the midi/digital era - and back when more commercials featured background music - he was a staff arranger/composer (the Kenton band having evaporated) at Tanner Studios in Memphis, which mostly recorded commercials, jingles, and station IDs. That was some fantastic money, while it lasted.
The VERY last thing that I did in Memphis - LITERALLY, on my way out of town – heading to teach at KU that one year (that I incorrectly thought I might be happy teaching tuba students), was to record a little silly unaccompanied tuba solo-ditty for a commercial, there. When driving west across the Mississippi River bridge, I was thinking to myself, “What the HELL am I doing, leaving this…??“
(I was right back there, by the end of May, as - not only was the teaching lifestyle not for me, but - promises made to me (conditional on me going there) were not fulfilled. (*Who’d-a thunk it?)
———
Dee and recording:
His writing was wonderful, but he would always would insist that we record three good takes of everything, and “stack“ it. (great for our paychecks, but bad for the final products)
That would result in a really “big“ sound coming out of the monitors, but - by the time that stuff was compressed for TV or radio broadcast – it sounded very tinmy, and - based on those end results - I view the “stacking“ strategy to have been a misjudgment.
__________________
*one of the primary tenets of the “progress” religion: consequentialism

BACK TO:
“WHICH HORN TO BRING?”

[Tubajug]

I just talked to the guy and he said it will be tuba parts when they're there, and bass parts otherwise. I might see if I can get my Mammoth up and running by then... otherwise it will probably be my King BBb.

He said it's mostly 30s-40s charts. Sammy Nestico, Count Basie, etc.

[bloke]

That’s good/useful information, but I typically think of Nestico - in particular- as having begun to really bloom from the late 1940s onward.

[prairieboy1]

Martin "Mammoth" with the recording bell!

[tclements]

For real bass parts, I'd bring the biggest tuba I had. For low trombone parts, or if the tuba is written as part of the trombone section, you'll want a Mirafone 186-type of tuba.

[Tubajug]

Not perfect, but my Reynolds (I believe that's what they are) sousaphone bits will work for now. I just need to put on the water key and bell screws and I'll bring the Mammoth!

[bloke]

I respect the " keep it original" thing, and I also respect the "build perfect replicas of originals" thing...

...but I've always viewed the cylindrical tuning bits on Martin tubas as no more acoustically elegant as run-of-the-mill tapered ones.

I understand Martin's good idea - offering ergonomic flexibility on a concert tuba, but neither "several inches of cylindrical tubing" (Martin tuning bits) nor "two reverse tapers" (typical tuning bits) mimic a normal tuba mouthpipe tube's taper.

[prairieboy1]

Go 'Mammoth"!