Tracking Devices

[the elephant]

I am working on designing a special pocket or whatever for an Apple AirTag that would be hard to see unless a thief were to look for it specifically.

It will be nickel silver and (I hope) will look like some innocuous bit of decoration. Or perhaps brass that will blend in more. I have to think about this for some time. Primarily am cannot get to it right now, but also I am having some trouble envisioning something that could do a good job of this that could be a universal thing, perhaps to sell, or maybe just to give to friends who are interested. So the quest for a decent design is ongoing.

Meanwhile, I have come to genuinely love these little things. I have tested them for months now, hidden in vehicles, placed in gig bags, carried in pockets, etc. I have listed them as missing and did the procedure for that, and I have tracked them.

One important thing, though, is the phone itself, which to get the full benefit of the abilities of the AirTag must be an iPhone 11 or 12. My wife has the 11 and I have an older Xr. I can locate the AirTag's last reported location, but the phone does not have the chip needed to track the AirTag in the manner that it broadcasts. It can use GPS, but mostly it depends on other Apple devices to pass within a certain distance of it to update where it is. I am not sure why (maybe to save the one-year watch battery's life) it only updates to within a certain distance, and it only pings on a schedule. If you were to pass my stolen tuba with an iPhone it would ping it to update its location through the network. However, the iPhone 11 has a chip that allows the owner to not only track it in a macro sense as I described, but it also then can give you an exact distance with an arrow to point you directly to the tag. (I don't know what you would do if that led you to a wall, other than to run inside and try from within the building.

These can be used as excellent, inexpensive, and covert ways to track your car if the manual transmission was not deterrent enough to the scumbag who takes it. My older phone can get me to a house or parking lot so that I know where my car (or tuba) is, but cannot locate it exactly. For a car that is good enough for a call to the cops. (This happened to a friend last week which made me decide to pick up some of these things for my vehicles and horns.)

So, imperfect, but very flexible, easy to use, and — well — cool. I like well-designed stuff that does what the advertising claims, and these do.

If you lose one a person with an Apple device can get it to send you a message or give the person who tries to contact you your phone number so they can get it back to you. Likewise, if some butthole tries to surreptitiously track you, it can be pinged with an Apple device and instructions will be given to you to disable it.

So I want to mount one to each horn, but it can't be mounted using heat. The bracket can, but it would need the means to open as well to latch closed very securely. It cannot rattle, and it cannot create a large dead spot on the horn.

Let's discuss this. I am open to making something if I like the design enough, and we have a good history in this community with group-design-think, if not in execution, certainly in features and basic layout of things.

If you know what these are you will see the value of having a way to affix these to horns in a manner that is secure, silent, removable, and that does not create any sort of acoustical issues. This does not mean that I see no downside to these being on my horns, but I am very interested in creating a safe way to give them a serious chance to prove to be of use.

The issue is that they are actually a little big to be "hidden", which is why I need some feedback on what such a bracket might look like. Should it conceal the device completely or be more of a cage? It needs to be easy to remove but very secure. It needs to be hard for a thief to notice if they are not looking for something like this, so probably mounted to an inner branch or the backside of the valve section.

For all who say, "Just drop on in the gig bag, I have had many friends have a horn stolen, and usually, if the thief is knowledgable about instruments at all, the first thing they do is dump the case or bag, along with anything in it that is not easily sellable or that could identify the owner. So one in a case is not protecting the tuba, but the case. I want one *on* the horn if that is doable.

Perhaps this is a stupid idea, but I won't really know this until I give it a try. Please participate and give me some ideas. I think this is something that might turn out to be of benefit to others.

[the elephant]

Tuba LoJack is a good idea.

[LargeTuba]

I have also thought about the benefits for tuba security. I was thinking it could affix to a bottom cap in some way.

If you are successful, sign me up!

[York-aholic]

What about a brass disk the same diameter as the air tag, flat on one side and convex on the other… attached somehow on the inside of the bell’s small end?

It’s unlikely that a thief would look down the bell or notice things if they did.

Just a thought, didn’t say it was a good thought, just a thought.

If the convex side came down to a knife’s edge, it wouldn’t intrude into the bore much. I don’t know if it would affect intonation/sound. I suspect not.

Downside is that the radius of the convex side would be horn specific, or at least dictate where in the bell it would need to attach.

I’ve thought that using these when shipping a tuba might be a good idea.

[Three Valves]

I heard an add on the radio the other day about an app you MUST HAVE for your phone.

It reminds the parent that they may have left their kid in the car.

Because, you know, no one leaves the car without their phone. Especially those prone to leaving living, helpless human beings in their car.



In other words, I think your idea is kinda nifty, but not necessary.

[the elephant]

Where I live, having tracking devices on your irreplaceable work tools has become 100% necessary. My stuff is so custom now that an insurance payout for a stolen horn will in no way replace what I have lost. It is not about an app. It is about finding your stuff so that you can get the cops involved. Say what you will, but I disagree completely, and actually do not see any sort of connection between this and with the example you gave. Please tell me how being responsible with one's work tools (or vehicles) has anything at all to do with being a craptastic parent. I'll wait…

[groovlow]

I can see this tech being valuable for shipping horns between buyers and sellers or if you need to ship to the gig. My first thought, how will the metal of the horn affect the signal, amplify?, shield?

Design? How about some dull brass "looking tape" arms length inside the bugle?
If the someone who shouldn't have the horn knows anything about horns, external mounts will fail.

Possibly under the Apple logo of the device you can print autotune and mount it anywhere

Joe "Internet of things, creepy" H

[Three Valves]

Please tell me how being responsible with one's work tools (or vehicles) has anything at all to do with being a craptastic parent. I'll wait…

If I said that, you would have a point. But I didn't, so you don't.

[iiipopes]

If you are going to track a tuba that has been stolen, the device looks small enough to attach somewhere really low, say, arm's length reach down the bell stack, so that it can't be discovered, dislodged, and destroyed by a thief. It looks small enough that it would not impede the tone or intonation of a tuba. Then whoever has the app to track it can do so.

[groovlow]

Duhhh

Print iTune in an arc over the Apple logo

[the elephant]

If I said that, you would have a point. But I didn't, so you don't.

Um, you said something about people leaving kids in cars and an app to help them out, and then said my idea lacked merit because of this. I am not sure how I was expected to interpret that other than how I did. It seems to be a bit of a non-sequitur, if you will.

It reminds the parent that they may have left their kid in the car…

Okay, so *THIS* has a point? What is it, and how does it relate to this topic?

In other words, I think your idea is kinda nifty, but not necessary.

Again, WTF are you talking about? You are not making any sense, since none of what I wrote has anything to do with leaving kids in cars, which is EXACTLY what you wrote. I have a point and I made it. Then you came in and dumped a bucket of nonsense into the thread and told me my idea was nifty but not necessary. Please explain.

Again, I'll wait…

[Three Valves]

Would be interesting if this idea could be mocked up such that it fits into a hollow brace that could be soldered into place. Then it could be used on several types of instruments fairly discreetly.

A knowledgeable thief would still be able to defeat this, but that’s the person who’s nearly impossible to defeat. Like my father used to say about most locks and other theft deterrents, you’re “keeping the honest people honest.” The truly motivated will defeat most reasonable measures. Nevertheless, this would likely aid in a significant portion of the cases of theft and aid in prompt recovery.

[Three Valves]

It seems to be a bit of a non-sequitur, if you will.

I've actually been told that many times in my life.

But in this case, I would more accurately describe the literary device I employed a simile;

(Borrowed from the interwebs) A less important but common metaphor. It takes the idea of comparing two unrelated subjects to create meaning at a deeper level, it is figure of speech where two unlike subjects are explicitly compared. They tend to be more lyrical and less literal.

For example, “She is like a rose”. What, she is green and spiky? No! It is comparing the generally accepted qualities of a rose (romance, beauty, etc) and comparing to the woman in question to illustrate her qualities.

I trust that clears the air.

[York-aholic]

I still don’t get it.

Three valves points out the app to help parents not forget their kid in the car.

Elephant’s idea has to do with tracking and recovering a stolen tuba.


The only way I can make sense of this is if, @Three Valves , you are suggesting that rather than sorting out a LoJack for tuba, people should just be more watchful of their tubas so they don’t get stolen in the first place.

And yes, keeping a watchful eye on your horn is obviously a good plan, stuff still gets stolen.

[Three Valves]

The only way I can make sense of this is if, @Three Valves , you are suggesting that rather than sorting out a LoJack for tuba, people should just be more watchful of their tubas so they don’t get stolen in the first place.

A+

And insuring them against mysterious disappearance, yes.

[the elephant]

It still does a poor job explaining your post. If you have to explain it…

I am talking about theft from the home, from backstage (which happens), or even from the car. (You try to unload your three horns and take them into the gas station and set them on the floor while you urinate. I'll leave them in the car, thank you very much.) I had a guy in the McDonald's around the corner from the Fine Arts Building (Jake's studio) shove me down with the tuba on my back, and then tear at the gig bag in an attempt to steal it. He failed, but what if he had succeeded?

My idea has little merit in *your* world. You don't cart tubas around in your car for 25,000 miles each year. I do. And if they go bye-bye I lose my livelihood. I am not just inconvenienced. For people who live in something more like *my* world, the idea has merit.

If you don't like that, you are welcome to start your own thread about how useless tracking tags are. THIS thread is about how to mount them to the horn more or less permanently (long term) and not about their merit or lack thereof.

[the elephant]

The only way I can make sense of this is if, @Three Valves , you are suggesting that rather than sorting out a LoJack for tuba, people should just be more watchful of their tubas so they don’t get stolen in the first place.

A+

And insuring them against mysterious disappearance, yes.

I guess you completely overlooked/skimmed my response, where I stated that insurance money will never begin to replace my 100% custom horns. The money, while nice to have, will take Wohlers a certain time to pay to me, and then I will have to begin a search to replace whatever was taken from me with half the funds needed to do the job. (My horns are insured for what they cost me, not what they will now cost to replace with like quality.)

Now go start your own thread so I can piss in it like you are doing to my thread. Happy days!

[York-aholic]

It looks to me like the air tag has a battery that lasts about a year. What about something like that B&S MTS brace you have?

Circular spot in the middle (hollowed out to fit AirTag), closed off with another circle of brass (glued closed with AirTag inside), then some sort of manufacturers logo on both outside sides?

After the year, pop the little circle lid off, replace AirTag...

[Three Valves]

I guess you completely overlooked/skimmed my response, where I stated that insurance money will never begin to replace my 100% custom horns.

Now go start your own thread so I can piss in it like you are doing to my thread. Happy days!

1. Oh no, I read the whole thing. I always do. I appreciate your writing style. It reminds me of a dear old friend I've known since 9th grade.

2. "I think your idea is kinda nifty" = piss in it?? I'll just take that in the spirit it was intended and move on. As an example to others.

[LargeTuba]

I don't understand people poo-ing on Mr. Elephant. Isn't it worth $29 for a little protection and peace of mind for your multi-thousand dollar instrument?