Adjusting to a New Mouthpiece

[Big Francis]

For the first time in 10 years, I'll be trying out a new mouthpiece. Previously when using a new mouthpiece, I would go by feel to make my judgement. Id it was not similar to what I was used to, I think I was too quick to dismiss it.

Do any of you have a method you use to make a good faith effort to evaluate a new mouthpiece?

Thanks in advance for the input.

Frank

[bort2.0]

My best advice -- put the usual mouthpiece away and go all in with it like it's the only thing you own. Do that for a little while and see where you end up.

For me, mouthpieces tend to be more about my personal comfort and effort level to get the sound and articulations that I want. I don't expect to get a magical new sound, but I would hope that it can make it a little easier to accomplish that sound.

[bort2.0]

Advice #2 -- don't wait 10 years before trying anither mouthpiece, but don't buy 10 more this year, either. We all change as players over time, and what once worked best for us may no longer be good at all. Familiarity is good. But "easier" is really good, too!

[Three Valves]

1. If you can not clearly articulate what is wrong with your current mouthpiece, don't get another mouthpiece.

2. Like shoes and women, it it don't feel right the first time you try it/them on, don't get them hoping that it/they will eventually fit later!!

[bloke]

Roughly fifteen years ago (before it occurred to me to design my own contrabass tuba mouthpieces for my individual instruments, much less market mouthpieces - though I HAD already designed one bass tuba mouthpiece for myself), I involved myself in an approx. once-monthly "freeway conservatory", whereby I was - via a stressful/hurried weekend highway route north-and-south through the central USA (involving very little rest/sleep over two days) - was studying with three very-highly-regarded-by-me-and-most-all-others players.

Two of them were playing on a popular-at-the-time mouthpiece, so I switched to it, and stuck with it (too long).
It's a "good" mouthpiece, but the rim/cup opening is only a "good fit" for some people, as is the rim contour.
The cup/throat/back-bore shapes are all conventional - which (sure) defines it as a "big seller".
It wasn't right for me, my playing suffered, I began to find myself resorting to unhealthy "work-arounds", and - finally, after over a year - I went back to my previous (albeit not "ideal") mouthpiece, and - suddenly - I could "play" again, and without worrying about the stupid mouthpiece.

For me (and - I suspect - for many others) it takes about fifteen seconds (maybe up to fifteen minutes) to determine whether an instrument or a mouthpiece are going to work.

As an example of an instrument...
A couple of decades ago, people (on a forum similar to this one) were ooh-ing and ahh-ing over a particular contrabass instrument that someone had built from old and newer parts (today, known as a "frankentuba"). It became available for sale, and (with really strong cash-flow, at that time) I bought it (for $XX,XXX).
When it arrived, I unboxed it, played it for (yup) about 90 seconds, boxed it back up (eek !!! ) and contacted the company for a return. They asked my why I wished to return it, but - since it had been assembled in their shop, and I saw no reason to offend - I simply stated that "it isn't right for me".

[Big Francis]

Advice #2 -- don't wait 10 years before trying anither mouthpiece, but don't buy 10 more this year, either. We all change as players over time, and what once worked best for us may no longer be good at all. Familiarity is good. But "easier" is really good, too!

1. If you can not clearly articulate what is wrong with your current mouthpiece, don't get another mouthpiece.

The articulation is just fine, and I was happy with the sound for the first 8 years, but have been trying to develop a warmer sound. I've played on a similar mouthpiece a few years ago. I got the sound I wanted out of it with no adverse issues, it just didn't have the feel that I was used to. Also, I wanted to do my due diligence and make sure I couldn't get the sound out of the current mouthpiece with time and effort. I didn't want to be "that guy" hopping from mouthpiece to mouthpiece when practicing with a purpose could fix it.

batman mouthpiece.JPG (46.16 KiB) Viewed 1108 times

[bone-a-phone]

I've given up on adjusting to new mouthpieces. If the mouthpiece doesn't work, it doesn't work. If I play it and it's wonky, I stop playing it and play something else that isn't wonky. I've settled into a groove with Doug Elliot mouthpieces. I've got 6 or 7 of them plus some extra pieces.They are predictable and they sound great. The rims always fit because I get the same rim for every mouthpiece, with a different shank to fit the horn, and a different cup to make the sound I want to make. And Doug will help you select what you need. In my experience, he has been right almost every time for me. I'm using his stuff on all my tenor bones, euphoniums, and I'm working on getting a bass bone piece. I'm still not enough of a tuba player to warrant anything other than the Kelly 18 I'm using now, but maybe someday...

[iiipopes]

Make sure the horn is at its best first. A leak, a misaligned valve, crud in the mouthpipe, water key corks worn, as well as insufficiently lubricated valves and slides, will throw off your impressions of a new mouthpiece.

After that, Go "all in" for a few days with the new mouthpiece; note timbre, pitch, response, etc., compared to what you remember from your previous mouthpiece. But don't go back to the old mouthpiece just yet.

After that, do some switching back and forth between mouthpieces with your usual warm-up routine with the long tones, slurs, articulation, etc. Note differences.

After that, play the same exerpts of your current concert repertoire with each mouthpiece. Note the differences.

Not a new mouthpiece, but recently I did the same thing with a new tuba: which mouthpiece. This is the routine I used. I decided the funnel mouthpiece is best for this particular tuba, and the rounded cup mouthpiece shall stay with the souzy.

[donn]

I find my evaluations at home somewhat unreliable, particularly vs. playing outdoors where I usually seem to play a notch louder. Have sometimes brought two mouthpieces to band practice, and learned something useful thereby.

[tubanh84]

The last time I made a significant change in mouthpiece, it was because I hadn't tried a new one in years, and I knew there were a lot of good mouthpieces out there that I hadn't ever tried. So, more curiosity. Plugged a Mike Finn H into my horn, and it was immediately superior in tone and articulation. All the Mike Finns (for me) produced better articulations than any other mouthpiece I had played. It had some initial shortcomings - certain notes in my high range didn't center the same way, and the extreme low register wasn't as accessible. But, given the plusses, I worked with it.

Took a couple months, but the high and low range issues weren't because of the mouthpiece itself; they were because I hadn't gotten used to it. They smoothed out, and I've been on that mouthpiece for years. Had they not worked themselves out, maybe I would have moved on despite the sound and articulation. Who knows?

I also have a Cooley Helleberg and an Olka CB1 that I use for specific situations. I gave myself a good long time on each - The Cooley produces better intonation on my horn, and the Olka produces a bigger (maybe not better?) sound, but the various issues with them (Cooley - sound/flexibility; Olka - intonation) didn't smooth out (again: ON MY HORN and being played by MY face), so I keep coming back to the H. If I haven't played in a while and have to play in public, I'll use the Cooley because the intonation is so good. If I need a lot of low range access, I'll use the Olka. But neither replaces the H for the majority of my playing.

So. I guess I identify issues I'm having, try to work them out, use different mouthpiece to see if they help, and judge as I go.

[Big Francis]

2. Like shoes and women, it it don't feel right the first time you try it/them on, don't get them hoping that it/they will eventually fit later!!

Sigh…..30 seconds in and it’s a winner. Lol.

[Big Francis]

I find my evaluations at home somewhat unreliable, particularly vs. playing outdoors where I usually seem to play a notch louder. Have sometimes brought two mouthpieces to band practice, and learned something useful thereby.

I’m going to use it through the next concert cycle (November) before making a final decision.

[bloke]

Being someone who sells mouthpieces with their own name on them, I guess I’m supposed to pretend to understand everything about “mouthpiece jargon“. (Actually, I barely am familiar with most other commonly-sold mouthpieces - other than Bach/Conn/Schilke/Wick, and I’m only familiar with two or three of the PT mouthpieces, even though tons of those things are sold.)
One thing I’ve never understood – really - is when someone asks or states about how a mouthpiece “articulates“.
I don’t understand using that term in conjunction with a mouthpiece’s characteristics. To me, articulation is something that happens inside the mouth, and not past the mouth.
When people use the word “articulation“ in conjunction with a mouthpiece, are they referring to response characteristics, or what?

[matt g]

The articulation bit seems to really be a function of minimized contact around the embouchure. So yeah, the ability for the lips to flap without added damping. But there also needs to be a balance of comfort so that the embouchure can seal with some contact pressure.

PT mouthpieces are the first brand that comes to mind with ones I put down immediately. The rim design doesn’t agree with me. I like Marcinkiewicz mouthpieces which seems to be an out brand currently.

[Kirley]

I like Marcinkiewicz mouthpieces which seems to be an out brand currently.

I like them, too. But I don't like the shank size which I find to be slightly smaller than standard American.

[Doc]

1. If you can not clearly articulate what is wrong

The articulation is just fine...

Am I the only one who sees these things?

Montoya.jpg (6.75 KiB) Viewed 971 times

Churchill.jpg (53.9 KiB) Viewed 971 times

When I try mouthpieces, most of the time I know right away if it is a possibility or not. For the "possibles," I might spend some time with them, but unless it reaches out and grabs me, it won't be my daily user. Nearly all of the mouthpieces I've chosen to use over the years were ones that made an immediate and significant impression.

[donn]

I like Marcinkiewicz mouthpieces which seems to be an out brand currently.

I like them, too. But I don't like the shank size which I find to be slightly smaller than standard American.

I sort of agree with that - I mean, a hair smaller than my other mouthpieces - but not sure about standard. In Matt Walters' scheme, the standard American shank is about .520 inches at the small end; European is about .530.

What I get when I put the calipers on them, is Marcinkiewicz and Kellyberg .520, most others about .530. Some of those mouthpieces could be over 50 years old, so if there's been some creep, it's been going on for a while.

[bloke]

...so - rather than "articulating" the beginnings of sounds" - it has to do with how the mouthpiece touches the face...??
(Since "articulation" has such a strong definition in wind playing, perhaps the chosen word should - simply - be "contact"...??)

There is one style of rim contour that seems somewhat common on the PT mpcs (symmetrical/humped/defined inner edge which may-or-may-not ever touch a player's skin/medium width), but other ones seem (??) to - simply - copy the rims of the identifiable "classic" models of mouthpieces that seem to have been copied...

...and no one should take any offense whatsoever at the use of the word, "copy".
Every musical instrument - or part of an instrument - that is found to be mostly-similar to a previously-made one (by someone else) is somewhat of a "copy"...JUST AS musicians (from beginners to touring solo artists) COPY the execution/styles of previous musicians' performances.

[donn]

I had the impression that how the mouthpiece touches the face, has an effect on articulating the beginnings of sounds.

[bloke]

If someone LOVES Conn Helleberg 120 mouthpieces, the Marc' H1 is probably a little bit better, and - for MIRAPHONE rotary tuba use - probably the slightly undersized Marc' shank works out slightly better with MIRAPHONE...

...but - for stock/one-piece/silver-plated brass - Marc' pricing has risen meteorically, yes?
(If I'm not mistaken, they're now just as expensive as my - me: striving to make my most popular cup/back-bore/s.s. rim profile more accessible - hybrid brass/stainless steel bonded model...??)

bloke "not a big fan of Conn Helleberg 120 myself, but that's beside the point"