LA CL: Conn 2J

[hrender]

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/m ... 63323.html

[York-aholic]

At $1500 this has to be a no brained. Except that all of my hiding spots in the garage are full.

[bloke]

There are many models of tubas (and 9' brass) that I "like"...but - as I have some remarkably nice-playing things, here, and strive to have ONLY what might improve my performance on the job (and no "collection") - and instruments are offered up for sale which tend to completely "overlap" the purposes/uses of a couple of other instruments...
...well...I just need to be disciplined and say to myself, "That's a really nice instrument."

[bort2.0]

I forget... 3/4 size? 7/8 size?

Good for everything or "runs a little small...?"

[matt g]

The 2J is 3/4 sized.

A great quintet tuba, imo.

[GC]

Small but mighty.

[jonesbrass]

The 2J is 3/4 sized.

A great quintet tuba, imo.

Totally agree. Very nice 3/4 4V CC.

[The Big Ben]

I have an Olds 099=4 BBb which is the same general design as this tuba. It is pretty easy to carry around and easy to hold. If you own a large 4/4 or 5/4 in CC, I think you would appreciate that it would be easier to tote around when you really don't need the horsepower. And they have a plenty full tone. A college CC player might appreciate leaving the big CC in the music building and keep this one at home for practice and for smaller group use.

[York-aholic]

Here's another on for $1700 in Clearwater, FL for those of you on the East Coast;

https://reverb.com/item/29925584-conn-4j-4-valve-tuba

[hrender]

Here's another on for $1700 in Clearwater, FL for those of you on the East Coast;

https://reverb.com/item/29925584-conn-4j-4-valve-tuba

The ad text indicates this one is a 4J. Similar horn, though.

[bloke]

Here's another on for $1700 in Clearwater, FL for those of you on the East Coast;

https://reverb.com/item/29925584-conn-4j-4-valve-tuba

The ad text indicates this one is a 4J. Similar horn, though.

The hardware on the one identified as "4J" looks to be very much "California Olds".
I sorta thought the 2J was the "California Olds-made" one...
Am I confused...(??)

[LeMark]

I thought the 2J horns were reynolds. I get confused about the difference between reynolds and olds.

But yes, different than the 4J for sure.

[LeMark]

Words of wisdom from Richard Murrow

I have been reading the posts about 2Js and now with this post about the differences between 2 and 3J's I have to insert my 2 cents worth.

1. Yes the obvious difference was the bell 16.5" 2J & 18" 3J bell size.
2. Valve bore was the same on both horns, .658 but somehow they made the action shorter on the 3Js and it wasn't the old oval ports.
3. 2 slides sections to pull on the 4th valve of the 3J and 1 on the 2J. However, some of the 2Js came with an extra long 4th valve slide that lowered the pitch an augmented 4th which allowed for some interesting alternate fingering possibilities.
4. Better bracing on the 3J, plus protective plates on the bottom bow and players left side of the horn on the 3J which added weight.
5. The 3J came with a heavy weight bottom valve caps. Don't know whose idea that was, but that was well before those became popular with brass players and I doubt that many people even noticed because that wasn't a fad in 1977 or 78 when the 3J was introduced.
6. The ends of all tubes on the 3Js had a rolled lip/end and the 2J was just cut. Not a big deal, but an indication of refinement and detail on the 3Js.

How were the alike? Both horns play very well in tune and were generally pretty consistent from one horn to the other. Both produced a large sound considering the overall size and physical appearance. Did the 3J sound larger than the 2J? I don't think there was a real significant difference. Was the 2J more focused? Read previous answer. I do notice a bit more resonance in the sound of the 3Js, but some of that could might have to do with some of the things mentioned earlier; weight, braces, protective plates, etc. All things considered, either model was a very efficient, user friendly horn, that played well in tune, however in our world of tuba desires for BIGGER horns I'm sure that a decline in demand for these horns influenced the end of production.

By the way: On a previous post there was some mention of the 2Js being made in California at the Olds factory. While this may have been true for some of the earlier 2Js, many were made in Abilene at the Reynolds factory. Since Olds and Reynolds were one in the same at that time it only made sense to move to Texas where there was probably potential for less expensive labor at that time. Some actually had Abilene stamped on the bell. Also, I believe that at that point Olds/Reynolds were not actually making the instruments, but Conn had bought the facility and had there own workers making the horns. The 3Js were also made there when the 2J was discontinued around '77/'78. Also most 2Js came without the nickel plated inner bell.

One other point; Frequently the 2Js show up as being made in 1958. No they were not. this is because of the Olds/Reynolds serial #s that DO NOT correspond with Conn's serial sequence.

Richard Murrow

[Yorkboy]

Olds/Reynolds era:

2J = CC

4J = BBb

UMI/present era;

3J = CC (?)

5J = BBb

(I’ve never seen a 3J in person, fwiw)

They achieved a shorter throw on the 3/5J horns by making the piston wider in diameter.

[bloke]

The only significant differences between Olds and Reynolds - (JUST prior to those companies being shuttered in 1980) as far as tubas are concerned - is the styling of the caps/buttons, engraving, and (with the O-99 vs. TB-10) the ring around the bell, on the Reynolds TB-10.
Towards the end, even the brass-to-fiberglass bracing system (Olds vs. Reynolds sousaphones) was unified.

I thought the 2J horns were reynolds. I get confused about the difference between reynolds and olds.

But yes, different than the 4J for sure.

================================

OK...so (never remembering which actually Conn-made C tuba is "3J" or "4J", this set me straight. Thanks.

Olds/Reynolds era:
2J = CC

UMI/present era;
3J = CC (?)

I've not seen many 3J (actual Conn-made - sister to 5J) ones, myself.
WAY back in 1979 (at some Colorado/Kansas music educator shindig) Marty Erickson was at the Conn booth showing them off ("new") - hanging out with the regional rep., who was actually the one there showing them off.
As I recall, I declined an offer to try it (chose to not use their mouthpiece.)

I lean towards the Olds-made ones...They just seem - well - "better".

bracing: yes...tons of braces on both the Olds-made and Conn-made (and several more on the Conn-made) but both are "titanic", and the bracing on the Olds-made (as is King) is a full 1/4" in diameter.

To the best of my knowledge, Olds never bothered to manufacture a C tuba under their own name.
In a towards-their-end catalog, this was it:

[bort2.0]

Question: was the name "Olds" derived from "Reynolds"?

[MartinMan]

Question: was the name "Olds" derived from "Reynolds"?

While F.E. Olds and F.A. Reynolds were two different people, their names sure did look similar when abbreviated.

[bort2.0]

Question: was the name "Olds" derived from "Reynolds"?

While F.E. Olds and F.A. Reynolds were two different people, their names sure did look similar when abbreviated.

What a coincidence! Thanks!

[hrender]

History on both men/companies is online. FA Reynolds has a particularly interesting history since he worked for York and HN White before setting up his own business.

https://feolds.com/about/

http://contemporacorner.com/company/foster-reynolds/

In Reynolds' history, there is also an indication of a connection between the two companies:

After working for ten years to build and secure his company’s place in the brass instrument industry and having spent over 40 years in the industry overall, Foster Reynolds sold F.A. Reynolds Co. to Max Scherl and Heinrich Roth of Scherl & Roth in 1946 and “retired” at age 62.

However, just a year later, he was consulting for Maurice H. Berlin, president of Chicago Musical Instrument Company (CMI), parent company of F.E. Olds & Son. Founded in 1920, CMI was a long-time distributor for California-based F.E. Olds & Son. Shortly after World War II ended and brass instrument manufacturing restrictions were lifted, CMI purchased F.E. Olds & Son and took over operations with an eye on penetrating the burgeoning school band market.

The “Brilliant Bell” of the 1948/49 Studio line (trumpet, cornet, trombone) points to either collaboration or competition with his former company in Cleveland, who had launched an identical nickel-silver bell flare on the Emperor (“Silver Flare”) and Roth (“Tone Tempered”) lines in 1947.

As the plant supervisor at Olds in the 1950’s, Foster Reynolds pioneered large-scale techniques for manufacturing brasswinds and mentored Don Agard, a former F.A. Reynolds Co. employee, and Zigmant Kanstul, who started at Olds as a French horn assembler. One of Agard’s first major projects was managing the move in 1954 from Olds’ long-time factory in Los Angeles to larger facilities in Fullerton.

FA is the Zelig of the brass instrument business.