New alexander 163/164 tubas

[cthuba]

Hey all!

I was curious if anyone happened to played any of the newer Alex tubas or if any of you had any thoughts on the new instruments.

Thanks

[bloke]

They sound like Alex… Same bell shape as always.

C length intonation is better than with some of the quite old ones encountered; still not equivalent to the best that is out there.
I have been told a very old C ones that played quite well in tune - and I believe those accounts, but have not been lucky enough to encounter any of those.

It was nice to play on instruments that fit normal mouthpieces, didn’t smell like brass, and were not worn out.

I didn’t play them long enough to offer any more than this.

[bort2.0]

What I've always heard is that there is about 10% less magic than a vintage Alexander, but with modern intonation.

The bell diameter is larger on the new ones too, like 17.7" vs 16.5" or something, so that affects the sound a bit too.

[cjk]

I played a new Alex 163 CC at Hornguys several years ago. I thought it was a very fine instrument. It was pretty well in tune with itself. Had a I needed a tuba that day, that would have been it. I can't say that I ever recall playing an old 163.

[cthuba]

Thank you all!

I was thinking about future larger horns for myself (i play a gnagey 4/4 cc now) and was curious about some german horns like the Rudy 5/4 and Alexanders.

Would you all say an Alexander 163 is fine for an orchestra when comparing to other popular 5/4 tubas?

Thanks

[cjk]

Thank you all!

I was thinking about future larger horns for myself (i play a gnagey 4/4 cc now) and was curious about some german horns like the Rudy 5/4 and Alexanders.

Would you all say an Alexander 163 if fine for an orchestra when comparing to other popular 5/4 tubas?

Thanks

I have a (I think oldish) Rudolf Meinl 5/4 5v CC. The 163 is quite a bit smaller. IMHO, the 163 has a 4/4-ish body with a pretty large bore and leadpipe. They can put out a lot of sound. I would say a newer 163 is probably easier to play than a 5/4 Rudi.

[cjk]

I think with most folks who have Alexanders these days felt they had to have Alexanders and nothing else would do.

It seems to me the prototypical 5/4 CC instruments are the B&S PT6 (3098), B&S PT6P (3198), and the Meinl-Weston 5450 Thor.

[Heavy_Metal]

Thank you all!

I was thinking about future larger horns for myself (i play a gnagey 4/4 cc now) and was curious about some german horns like the Rudy 5/4 and Alexanders.

Would you all say an Alexander 163 is fine for an orchestra when comparing to other popular 5/4 tubas?

Thanks

I know the late great Dave Bragunier played a 163 in the National Symphony for a very long time. I've heard some recordings from that era and there's plenty of tuba in there. Dave taught @Mark E. Chachich , among many others. Not sure how many of his students aside from Mark bought Alexanders though.

[bort2.0]

Tom McGrady would have knowledge about the new Alexander's as well. I'm not sure if he's actually on this board or not. If he's not, can someone get him here?

[DandyZ629]

. Not sure how many of his students aside from Mark bought Alexanders though.

Well, one of my teachers and dearest departed friends, Mike Thornton did. As for me, having owned both Alexanders and Rudy Meinls...they're very much "sonic cousins."

[bloke]

I’m sure I have posted this opinion too many times over the years, but - to me - the one make and model that sounds the most like Alexander tubas is the horizontal main slide B-flat tall rotary B&S-made tuba that some people refer to as a PT-1, but which pre-dated all PT tubas considerably.
The sister B&S C tuba sounds nothing like Alexander, because the C model’s bell (the same bell that was used on the B&S Symphonie F tubas) was totally different, and - fwiw - the Jinbao knock off of that B&S “PT-1” B-flat tuba sounds nothing like Alexander, either.
The specific B&S tuba to which I am referring was most commonly seen - in the USA - as a Giardinelli-sold B-flat tuba called “Sonora“, and also imported by Selmer USA with the name “Meister Gerhardt Schneider“ engraved on the bell. In Europe, the model seems to have been sold in quite a few countries with the name, “Weltklang”, engraved on the bell. Those were all handmade sheet-metal tubas, and some of them had French rims - with others sporting a bell kranz. The style of rim – to me - made no perceivable difference in the resonance qualities.

[Heavy_Metal]

I also have a Sonora- it was the first one I owned. We got it when I was in high school, however long ago that was

B&S referred to these tubas as the model 101. From what I understand, a long, long time ago, a gentleman named Hess worked for Alexander for some time, then moved to Markneukirchen and started his own shop. This is why the 101 is wrapped similar to the Alex 163.

Before I got my Alex, I learned that the Sonora sounded pretty close to Mark's 163CC. Since he's principal, my job was (and is) to match his sound as best I could, and the Sonora did quite well in that respect. That would probably still be my main tuba if I hadn't had the chance to get my Alex.

[Stryk]

I have two older Alex 163s. The BBb is spot on with pitch. The C is not, but IS very workable. If you play a 6/4 C tuba, you will have no problem adjusting - same kinds of problems. The sound of an Alex is remarkable. The new ones are supposed to be mostly point and shoot, but anything hand made varies from horn to horn. Folks I have talked to say the pitch is great and the sound is ALMOST as good as the old ones - as in 90% as good.

[Stryk]

I know the late great Dave Bragunier played a 163 in the National Symphony for a very long time. I've heard some recordings from that era and there's plenty of tuba in there. Dave taught @Mark E. Chachich , among many others. Not sure how many of his students aside from Mark bought Alexanders though.

Here is Chester Schmitz playing Tubby on his Alex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_DgcWjzQKg

[cthuba]

Thank for the input folks!

Ive just been curious since the york 6/4 style is in vogue right now if it would be worth getting a new rudy or alex as something different....

[bloke]

They seem to have been en vogue for decades.
I bought (and sold) several, and gave them all a decent trial. I even monkeyed with a couple of them, and got them to do more of what I wanted them to do, but - to get the type of resonance out of them that I prefer – I found that I had to play them louder than I really wanted to play them.
Guitar stores are pretty clever, as they usually have full length mirrors in them - so that customers can see what they look like holding the guitars. The big tubas are pretty impressive, visually. I refer to it as the “Harley-Davidson Effect”.

Thank for the input folks!

Ive just been curious since the york 6/4 style is in vogue right now if it would be worth getting a new rudy or alex as something different....

[Heavy_Metal]

Here is Chester Schmitz playing Tubby on his Alex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_DgcWjzQKg

Thanks for sharing this!

Thank for the input folks!

Ive just been curious since the york 6/4 style is in vogue right now if it would be worth getting a new rudy or alex as something different....

If you find an Alex that you like, go for it. @bort2.0 did.............

[matt g]

Dropping this post off as reference.

[Doc]

If I win the lotto (if I ever decide to play), a 164 Kaiser BBb would be on order from Alexander, and likely a 163 CC.

Dave Kirk played his 163 CC (main was a 4v, also had a 5v) with Houston for many years, and it was a marvelous sound to behold. I played the 4v a couple of times, and I was a believer. A while back, he started using a Nirschl 6/4 CC. I don't know if he or HSO owns it. I've heard him play the Nirschl, and it sounds really good, but it ain't a patch on the @$$ of that Alexander sound. And with the Alex, there was NEVER a shortage of sound.

And he has a 3/4 Alex CC plus an Alex F. Tremendous sound.

I attempted to trade my Kurath for a 4v many years ago, but didn't work out. I would have NO trouble with a new one, especially if the sound was there and the intonation was good.

[bort2.0]

Fun fact -- Dave Kirk's 163 has the same wacky ass leadpipe as my 163.