What the heck is a “teacup tuba”?

[DonO.]

Music Go Round is listing an Ambassador “teacup tuba”. To me it has the appearance of a very narrow bore baritone horn, although you can’t judge the size by the picture. Ambassador used to be an Olds brand, but who knows who has that name now? It’s listed for 99.95! Is it anything musical? Or just a decorator piece? I’ve never heard the term “teacup tuba” before.

[Three Valves]

Looks like an Alto Horn. Listing doesn't even say what key it is in.

A link would be nice.

[DonO.]

Don’t know how to do that on this forum yet. Sorry.

[The Big Ben]

Don’t know how to do that on this forum yet. Sorry.

Cutting and pasting works. There is a fancier way to do it but I just cut and paste the URL into my post.

[DonO.]

This it?

https://www.musicgoround.com/product/41 ... eacup-tuba

[DonO.]

That’s the one!

[donn]

Ambassador used to be an Olds brand, but who knows who has that name now?

It's probably the Olds Ambassador line - I don't think there's any chance something like this is less than 42 years old.

What key? Has to be Eb, doesn't it? I know there have been some funkiphoniums in F, and maybe much earlier that was a thing with classic alto horns with exchangeable slides, but at this (60s?) in that form, I don't see it. They made mellophones, in the French horn form.

While this instrument is of little practical interest today, it's a relatively easy instrument to play and could be a great intro instrument for a young person who wouldn't mind spending a year sitting in the after-beat section, and it is in my opinion the truest example of the saxhorn you'll see on this side of the Atlantic. The French have stuck with the saxhorn and made a fine instrument out of it, but in general the tuba family is more of a parallel development rather than, as you will sometimes hear, the invention of Adolphe Sax. But there's the alto horn.

[LeMark]

From the pics I too would say it's an Alto horn

[bloke]

' funny how most refer to E-flat alto instruments as "tenor" horns, and those skinny little English B-flat baritones are called "baritones" - rather than "tenor" horns.

It's no wonder that there's so much confusion.

[Three Valves]

What kind of horn can you buy for $10??

A Tenner horn!!

[donn]

I believe the semantic tension is greatest if you measure it between England and the rest of Europe, where small a Bb baritone is a "tenor horn". To me the continentals make more sense here, and according to the Italians, we agree with them -

Tenor and baritone have often been confused: in Anglo-Saxon countries the flicorno tenore is in fact improperly called "Baritone horn" (but in American the original term "tenor horn" has been preserved).

[2nd tenor]

I believe the semantic tension is greatest if you measure it between England and the rest of Europe, where small a Bb baritone is a "tenor horn". To me the continentals make more sense here, and according to the Italians, we agree with them -

Tenor and baritone have often been confused: in Anglo-Saxon countries the flicorno tenore is in fact improperly called "Baritone horn" (but in American the original term "tenor horn" has been preserved).

If there’s a tension then it’s because the Continentals are confused. Here in the U.K. we have many Brass Bands and three types of Horn in them: Flugelhorn in Bb, Tenor Horn in Eb and Baritone Horn in Bb an octave below the Flugelhorn. Euphoniums play at the same pitch as Baritone Horns but the Euphonium with its bigger bore and larger Bell is a Tenor Tuba.

Over the water in the USA names for some instruments differ, but folk there call Petrol Gasoline and here a rubber is a block of rubber for removing pencil marks. Sometimes the same word means different things in different places.

[Three Valves]

Ya'lls talk funny.

https://youtu.be/75_kcJtwtE0

[GC]

In the Civil War era in the US, brass bands were typically (with, of course, exceptions) Eb soprano cornets or flugelhorns, Bb cornets, Eb alto (all sorts of variations), Bb tenor, baritone, and bass horns (all the same pitch and varying in bore, bow, and bell size from small to large), and Eb contrabass horns. From alto down were most commonly some variety of Saxhorn, though cornet-shaped altos were not that uncommon. In the 20th century US, the Bb tenor horns became larger and were commonly called baritones, and the name euphonium for the largest horns in that range took hold. Eb contrabasses were supplanted by BBb basses, the contra- was mostly dropped, and the name tuba became common.

And now we're getting infected again with British Brass Band terminology. We're so confused . . . not really. We're adaptable enough to figure out what terms to use when, especially those of us who play in both BBB's and US concert bands. If there's something really worth getting confused by, it's switching back and forth from reading tuba (bass) parts in treble clef and bass clef.

But some of us are just confused anyway.

Oh, wait, we were talking about the "teacup tuba", weren't we?

[donn]

Sax himself called the Bb flugelhorn-equivalent saxhorn "contralto", the Eb saxhorn "alto" - and a Bb "baritone", no mention of a tenor variety. The way it looks to me, everywhere in the world other than the UK, it's a reasonable proposition that there could be both tenor and baritone voices in a Bb length (as we don't call an F horn a "bass tuba" just because it's 12 feet long.)

Interesting point that I neglected, Sax actually had both saxhorn and saxotromba families. While the alto horn in general - say, a Yamaha for example - is dimensioned more or less like a saxhorn, the pictured Olds is so skinny that I wonder if it would be more of a saxotromba?

[Bob Kolada]

I knew a guy with a tiny York Eb in the same configuration. Cutest little thing I've ever seen.

[DonO.]

That sure LOOKS like a tuba mouthpiece in there. It’s in Ann Arbor MI. Anyone nearby that could check it out?

[donn]

Not sure what you're thinking there, but I guarantee that's an alto horn. Eb between trumpet and baritone horn, generally plays the same after-beat parts as the french horn in band. I guess the mouthpiece looks big because the horn is so skinny, but it may have a wide rim too. You can find a picture of an older one (Olds alto horn), silver plate and sitting its case, that looks exactly the same, on horn-u-copia.net, which you might find to be an interesting site if you haven't been there before.

[matt g]

It’s probably a trombone sized mouthpiece like what would be used on an alto trombone.

[LeMark]

Every one of my Altos (I have 3) uses an Alto horn mouthpiece, which has a shank much closer to a trumpet