Always high

[Erik_Sweden]

Hi all,

I know: get a teacher. (...and I will)

I have an issue: it don't matter what mpc or type of Bb or Eb tuba I play, I'm always way to high. So high that tuning slide is to short.
Any general idea of the issue, or how to find the issue?

/Erik

[the elephant]

Stick a good earplug into your bell-side ear. Leave the other ear open. Set up a tuner in front of you. Play some open tones and make certain that the buzz you can hear inside your head matches what is coming out of the bell exactly. If it does not the pitch is not centered, and I am sure that your buzz will be higher than the pitch of the tuba. After you get the two to match, note where this is in regards to the tuner. You will likely have to lower your buzz to match the tuba. Then, as you get this under control, the main slide will end up having to come in a good bit.

As you hear this and try to correct it using the tuner, your buzz will come under control and the horn will "like" it better. Once you have the buzz in tune consistently and the tuba's slide is in a more normal location you will have figured out what you have been doing and how to continue to do that without help.

Then do this every time you practice until this is no longer an issue. This is hard work, but it will pay off.

And yes, get a teacher, heh, heh…

Note that if you cannot get a stable reading on the tuner when buzzing you need to do more long tones, which are like weightlifting for your chops. Long tones will make them stronger and more able to stay under control for long stretches of time.

[Dan Tuba]

I think that we all struggle with this from time to time. Here are a couple of quick/simplified exercises that help me:
1)Get a tuner that has a tone generator (make sure that it's calibrated to A440, or whatever your local standard is)
2) Have the tuner generate/sound a Concert Bb (whatever octave is easiest for you to hear/match)
3) Practice singing the pitch, for 4 counts, rest 4 counts, rinse and repeat)
4) When you feel comfortable with singing (doesn't have to sound amazing, just as long as you are matching the pitch), try the same exercise buzzing on your mouthpiece.
5) When you feel comfortable buzzing, pick up your tuba and try the same exercise, paying very close attention to hearing/matching the pitch.


When you start to feel comfortable hearing/matching the pitch, I recommend working on playing your major scales with a drone (these can be found for free on YouTube, search Dr. Tuba Fun, - thanks Dr. Tuba Fun!).

When working with the drones/major scales. Pay really close attention to the tonic, this will help you figure out what adjustments are necessary to your slides in different keys.

The human body is remarkable. Once you are able to hear/sing the pitch, most of the time you will be really close whenever you pick up your tuba. Then it's just a matter of making some mechanical adjustments to the tuba to make it easier to match pitch/tonal center.

[bloke]

If you sound good to others and to yourself, the tuba is too short, yes?

[humBell]

If you sound good to others and to yourself, the tuba is too short, yes?

Concur.

It might even be a high pitched instrument if it is old enough.

[the elephant]

If you sound good to others and to yourself, the tuba is too short, yes?

Not the question asked at all.

[bloke]

Maybe, I’m reading “British English” or some other sort of English…??

BE78A788-11BF-4098-B0C6-CD19AEC65D11.jpeg (79.79 KiB) Viewed 2086 times

If you sound good to others and to yourself, the tuba is too short, yes?

How many different have been played by the person who posed the question?
What models are they?
When were they made, and for whom?
Assuming this person sounds good, why should they mess that up, rather than mechanically making whatever tubas are accessible to them the right length for that individual to play them?
____________________
Do you remember endlessly harassing a professional player - on the old site - about their O-rings and brass washers?
They have had two or three “signature“ models which have been made, since that time. All of them require me to push their main slides in all the way, and then lip up a little bit… but that player sounds very good. Should that player be required to play tubas - that are the length of my tubas - and then lip down all the time?

Not the question asked at all.

[the elephant]

If he is sharp he is sharp. The length of the tuba is irrelevant if the slide is all the way out and he is still sharp; that is his face. He clearly stated that this condition exists regardless of which tuba he plays. How he sounds to others is not a part of this question or equation.

[bloke]

OK…
You’re doing exactly what you used to point out that I did: argue for the sake of arguing (and defending a previous post of the hilt), rather than actually considering possibilities… sort of like the “valve section“ crap.

Perhaps, the reason that it irritated you so much when I did it is because, well…

one possible scenario, among quite a few others:
I can easily imagine someone getting a hold of a batch of band-owned tubas that were all made for the same band in the same era, which were all tuned higher than A=440.

[the elephant]

OK…
You’re doing exactly what you used to point out that I did: argue for the sake of arguing (and defending a previous post of the hilt), rather than actually considering possibilities… sort of like the “valve section“ crap.

Perhaps, the reason that it irritated you so much when I did it is because, well…

one possible scenario, among quite a few others:
I can easily imagine someone getting a hold of a batch of band-owned tubas that were all made for the same band in the same era, which were all tuned higher than A=440.

Joe, you answered something he did not ask, which is a constant battle in this community. What I posted above is accurate. Thanks for chiming in again with help.

[matt g]

[error: posted in confusion]

If nothing works and you’re chops are generating a good sound, it’s time to make modifications.

[Inkin]

Elephant's ear training stuff is great advice. If you aren't exaggerating the "This happens to me on all tubas" then it could be the issue. Making your ear better is a good skill to have and you may want to pursue that avenue no matter what, even if it turns out your ear is pretty good already.

If you are exaggerating the "this happens to me on all tubas", you could have a mismatch between mouthpiece shank and receiver on your horn. Does the mouthpiece insert really far? You could have a bell mismatched to the body in a removeable bell horn. You could have a horn built to a different tuning standard than what you are trying to force it into. You could have hit a button on your tuner and are trying to tune to A=428.

[humBell]

If you sound good to others and to yourself, the tuba is too short, yes?

Not the question asked at all.

My bad, too.

I read it cursorily, and responded somewhat flippantly...

Kudos to both you and Dan Tuba for answering it as a teacher.

"Give a tuba player a fish..." Er... how does the rest of that saying go?

[bloke]

OK (back to Square 1 - ignoring the self-appointed Post Police)

> Is your sound nice and round and resonant, or – compared to recorded or live sounds of accomplished players – is your sound somewhat thin and pinched?
> Are you able to list the makes and models of B-flat/E-flat Instruments that you have played, along with their origins and appropriate vintage?
(As a possible set of examples set of examples, do you play in a brass band that uses older instruments which have been lengthened from high pitch to modern pitch?)

As another set of examples, quite a few instruments that I have encountered (which were built for the European market a few decades ago) were set up to play at their best way up around A=444, which is nearly halfway between A=440 and the next semitone.
In particular, I’ve encountered some B&S-made instruments - which found their way to the United States that fit this description.

Rather than robotically attempting to answer your question - a question which doesn’t quite give us all of the information that we might need, I’m trying to narrow down your personal experiences - in order to help you discover the possible causes.
================
All of this having been said, it is a natural tendency for musicians - at every level - to play higher than they actually intend to play (and professionals crack jokes about this). Whether I’m playing in an orchestra that’s pretty darn good, a superb orchestra, or a walks-on-water orchestra, the typical thing is for the oboe player to play an A at 440 Hz, and then for the orchestra to end up playing a bit higher than that. Being a bit of a self-enforcing anti-sharp self-tyrant (ie. When practicing at home, I spot-check myself really often, and really strive to defeat this tendency in myself), I continue to experience a phenomenon whereby my instruments are just fine with the oboe player’s tuning note, but soon after that I’m finding that I must favor my main slide upward to fit in with whatever orchestra with which I’m working. This is a long paragraph to simply explain that “playing sharp“ (and hearing sharp) is a natural tendency. A year or so ago, I listened to an absolutely top level tuba player (youtube) play a tuba concerto with an absolutely top level orchestra. The entire time, the tuba player was about 10c sharp, compared to the orchestra.

Hi all,

I know: get a teacher. (...and I will)

I have an issue: it don't matter what mpc or type of Bb or Eb tuba I play, I'm always way to high. So high that tuning slide is to short.
Any general idea of the issue, or how to find the issue?

/Erik

[Three Valves]

OK (back to Square 1 - ignoring the self-appointed Post Police)

Speaking as the officially appointed Tubaforum whistleblower, what we really need is for Tubaforum to just keep on doing what everyone objects to only more so!!

[Doc]

OK (back to Square 1 - ignoring the self-appointed Post Police)

Speaking as the officially appointed Tubaforum whistleblower, what we really need is for Tubaforum to just keep on doing what everyone objects to only more so!!

Are you a real whistleblower or a plant/false flag whistleblower?

[Three Valves]

I just blow my whistle for whoever listens!!

"Always High"

Are we talking about tubas??

[Doc]

"Always High"

I've seen those people...

[Mary Ann]

When I developed dystonia I had to re-learn to play basically without chops, if that makes any sense. I always had a decent sound and intonation, but the tuning slide (on my horn) was also always out about an inch. After, when I had had to learn to play with air instead of chops, the tuning slide was all the way in and I was FLAT. Over time as I recovered somewhat and was able to use a bit of chops, I got up to pitch and even pull a 1/4 inch on the tuning slide. So....you are buzzing with tight chops and hitting the top of the slot. Wade told you how to fix it. I would only add that you need to buzz "within the slot" to see how far down you can get the pitch to go without jumping partials. I'll bet $$$ you can go down a long way before it jumps partials and not up at all before it will jump. The instrument will resonate the best about midway in the slot, and you will be doing less work but need more accuracy with your buzz pitch.

[Three Valves]

IF I am buzzing in tune I am making the that buzz by flapping my lips together.

BUT, the tuba resonates sound by an air column that is not produced by an actual buzz/flapping.

Someone is lying…