“Three Easy Pieces” 🙄 - Berlioz / Gounod / Holst

[bloke]

I used a large bore compensating euphonium with a bass trombone mouthpiece - last night - to play March to the Scaffold (and only Tuba 1 was covered).
It just made so much more sense, aurally.
We did not play the Witches’ Sabbath, but I believe a couple of those things would sound a lot more ominous/scary on the Gregorian chant (NOT the climactic moment of the movement, but part of setting the scene) than a pair of extra-extra-large F tubas - with their players blasting their guts out.
Those skinny little tubas - that were around in the 1840s and later - probably would’ve fit the bill well, also. I’m not one to rise up (in the middles of others’ discussions) and champion historical intent, but one who will go to bat for aural effect.
I used the same instrument to play the ophicleide part to Gounod’s marionette funeral march - mostly centered-on-the-staff tessitura (as with Berlioz), clipped sounds requested in the markings in the bassoon-like bass lines, and with a hint of ophicleide-ish grunt - rather that tuba woof.
There are a few semi-obnoxious D pitches (just below the staff - loud brass downbeats) which are supposed to be punched in order to interrupt the flow a little bit, and I used the valve combination 3-4 to slightly flatten the tuning, so I could lay into those D’s - without any concern of going sharp (as I’m not a euphonium “artiste” - more of a “B-flat band baritone horn player”, but prefer that this fact not necessarily be obvious to those out in the hall).
=============
I used an ancient Yamaha 1970’s name-painted-on-the-bell euphonium to play the so-called “tenor tuba” (screamin’ high) part on Holst’s “Mars”, last night
- small shank receiver
- smaller bore
- smaller mouthpiece
It offered more projection in all the solo passages, and (for me - again: a doubler) it offered much easier control of the tuning (in that range from F up to “that” concert C “up there”). At first, I thought I might print off someone’s bass clef part, but - after a couple of read-throughs at home - I realized that “trumpet music” is just as easy to read as it was back in beginning band class.
(I used the squatty Holton B-flat tuba for everything else on the show - ACTUAL tuba parts…Maybe I’m becoming a B-flattist…??)
——————-
…so what did the music director have to say (re: using the euphonium on Berlioz and Gounod…??
Their complete comments are listed below:

[UncleBeer]

I agree 100%: the leaner sound of the smaller/higher pitched instruments fit the music much better, and blend far better with the other brass.

As to historical intent, I've played "the Rite" with a big-name orchestra on 6/4 CC tubas. It can be done musically and accurately, just as violin parts can also be played on the cello. But that makes no musical sense, and that's not the instrument they were written for. Why not start from the assumption that the composer knew what he was doing?

[bloke]

Even a (not-contrabass-resonance) “traditional” F tuba is probably a better choice for “Rite of Spring” - for tuba 2 - than some really big tuba…
…A couple of nice effects with that sort of instrument - even though it’s not a “French tuba en ut” are a nice “gritty” all-valves-down “low” F (octave w/tuba 1) towards the beginning, as well as the punchy sound offered by a lot of cylindrical tubing when trying to be heard (separate from the timpani) in those dance-to-the-death shifting-meter sequences…
…and again:
Don’t bother the music director with any of this crap.

I agree 100%: the leaner sound of the smaller/higher pitched instruments fit the music much better, and blend far better with the other brass.

As to historical intent, I've played "the Rite" with a big-name orchestra on 6/4 CC tubas. It can be done musically and accurately, just as violin parts can also be played on the cello. But that makes no musical sense, and that's not the instrument they were written for. Why not start from the assumption that the composer knew what he was doing?

[Estubist]

…Maybe I’m becoming a B-flattist…??)

It could get worse

[Ace]

Excellent thread, Joe.

Ace

[bloke]

I’m doing the Mendelssohn MSND Overture in a very few short weeks, but I’m not doing that on my home turf and will be filling in for someone else...
… so - as much as I would like to see how that would work out with a large-bore compensating euphonium, I’m going to show up with the F tuba and just do what is expected. That’s what I’ve always done before, I believe that’s probably what most people do, and – as a guest – I’m going to do what’s expected. It’s not a fill-in guy’s job to come show up and make any sort of “statement“. Rather, it’s such a person’s job to show up and try to make things seem as if they are completely normal.

After that (other than combo and quintet gigs), are three or four orchestral Christmas pageants (depending on whether Nurcracker counts). I’m sure that I will be pulling out some sort of contrabass tuba for all of those, to offer forth the jolly Christmas sound. Now that I have a really nice-playing/easy-to-play B-flat, though, I can look through the individual tune lists and decide which one will make my job easier for each individual gig.

[the elephant]

That part is essentially a 5th French horn in function and range, most of the time. (There are no trombones, and the tuba part interacts with the horns a lot.) I use the smallest horn I have for it.

I also use smaller gear on the Berlioz and the Stravinsky. My favorite recording of the Berlioz uses two ophicleides and the effect is great.

The last time we played the Rite we used my Yamaha 621 F and the Besson front piston Eb (don't know Besson model numbers, sorry). I have that Kurath right now and would try very hard to not use it on the Rite unless I was playing Tuba II. I have a small MW F bugle here awaiting valves. If it turns out to be a decent enough player I would probably play Tuba I on that horn. Probably on the Berlioz, too. However, neither piece is scheduled for the next two years, so I'll get to that project when I get to it.

[UncleBeer]

I've done Midsummer Night's Dream overture a bunch of times on French tuba, farther down next to the woodwinds. Makes a lot of sense, texturally. The rest of the piece however has trombone parts, so moving back next to them is important.

Another great one by Mendelssohn is "Meeresstille und glückliche Fahrt". No trombones, and that's a serpent part, so you're even more "woodwindy". Also done this a bunch of times on French tuba, but would also work well on compensating euph.

[UncleBeer]

...a nice “gritty” all-valves-down “low” F (octave w/tuba 1) towards the beginning, as well as the punchy sound offered by a lot of cylindrical tubing when trying to be heard (separate from the timpani) in those dance-to-the-death shifting-meter sequences…

Here's that moment from the Rite, played on two French tubas (you only have to mash down the 6th valve, but as a quint, adds plenty of straight pipe):

[bloke]

I think the first time I played the donkey overture I was probably about 21 years old, and the smallest tuba I had was a 184.
Several years ago – probably 15 years ago, I brought a comp. euphonium (still the same Swiss one I still have) and my F tuba to play it. I picked up the euphonium, and the music director pointed to the tuba, so (duh) I played it on the tuba.
I think I’ve only played the overture six or seven times since that first time. I think the euphonium is better suited to the piece than any tuba. Tuba en ut is too much of a learning curve for me and (not looking for any sort of an argument, but) most involve a ton of pitch favoring.
I have a mouthpiece (that Doug Elliott made) that’s roughly the size of a French tuba mouthpiece. It’s no longer than a euphonium mouthpiece, plays a euphonium without playing it badly out of tune, and coaxes (in particular) large euphoniums into sounding more like French tubas…
…Of course, the piece wasn’t orchestrated for any sort of tuba, but a big compensating euphonium and a contrabass trombone mouthpiece help the sonority – more than anything I own – to sound like donkey braying, which is the desired effect. Again: I am way more interested in what works best than what is historically accurate. I am not any sort of historian, but simply a gig-doer. … and – as much louder as violins and all of the woodwinds are today - compared to during Mendelssohn‘s time, what I have balances better with a modern ensemble than would a serpent.

[bloke]

I’m curious as to how many “tuba“ players have left their set their tubas down (hiring a bass tuba player, rather than hiring a baritone horn player) and tackled Holst’s “tenor” tuba part on Mars and Jupiter…as well as their experiences and equipment choices.
(Playing Mars was one of the last two checkoffs remaining on my personal “tenor tuba” tune list… and I just don’t give a crap about playing Jupiter, as that tenor tuba part’s not very interesting...to me.)

[bloke]

a couple of very short clips from "Mars"...

Here's the tenor tuba's "call to war" at the beginning of "Mars".
Again, I used a beat-up YEP-321 that I found in the shop attic, along with a chipped-up Schilke 51 small shank mpc.
The counting and execution are not as easy as they sound.
If interested, print the part from IMSLP, and they play along with a youtube recording.
https://www.facebook.com/messenger_medi ... 8lk7XbwWc3

...and another familiar passage...
With this passage, the baritone horn player had better COUNT the number of beats in the long note at the end.
https://www.facebook.com/messenger_medi ... 8llGCj87IN

and the ending...
https://www.facebook.com/eduarbone/vide ... 1808288507

Let me know if the first two links don't work, because they were only sent in fb messenger.

[bloke]

Perhaps two or three times ago (of playing the ophicleide part on the Mendelssohn overture), the MD stopped (shortly before the recap) and let me know that my C-sharp was not in tune with the horn's ("concert") C-sharp.
My polite response (as all of the horn players were sorta "known" players - one, who has moved on to a "big ten" job...and yeah, the "big five" thing is outmoded) was that, "Yes, sir. I heard that, and will rectify it".
Afterwards, the concertmaster approached me and congratulated me for my restraint and clever wording (as the horn was sharp )...
I have a very nice way to play that C-sharp - which is 6-1-2 (F tuba) - a combination that offers a focused/spot-on C-sharp, and is a wonderful workaround (on that partial) for the notorious squirrelliness of the valve combination, 2-3, with most brass instruments.

Suddenly, I had a new friend. At the post-concert reception (a nice thing, which allows for musicians and their patrons to mingle) the concertmaster approached me and remarked, "I'm not really a wine-drinker...I wish they were offering beer". Being a very experienced hall-spelunker (as tuba players have a lot of time on their hands) I knew EXACTLY where there was a secret stash of refrigerated (decent) beer, and fetched them one.

That part is essentially a 5th French horn in function and range, most of the time. (There are no trombones, and the tuba part interacts with the horns a lot.) I use the smallest horn I have for it.

I also use smaller gear on the Berlioz and the Stravinsky. My favorite recording of the Berlioz uses two ophicleides and the effect is great.

The last time we played the Rite we used my Yamaha 621 F and the Besson front piston Eb (don't know Besson model numbers, sorry). I have that Kurath right now and would try very hard to not use it on the Rite unless I was playing Tuba II. I have a small MW F bugle here awaiting valves. If it turns out to be a decent enough player I would probably play Tuba I on that horn. Probably on the Berlioz, too. However, neither piece is scheduled for the next two years, so I'll get to that project when I get to it.