Becoming an "Eb Player"

[Tubajug]

Ever since finishing my Eb frankentuba last year, I've used it more and more and am loving it! It's small (15" bell, 0.656" bore), but it has some "guts" to it.

I've used it in polka groups, brass quintets, teaching private lessons, and as a member of a section in a concert band. I think I'm becoming an Eb player!

It makes a big, easy sound, plays in tune, and is loads of fun to play!

[donn]

Go back and forth much? I'm on Eb these days, works fine in the diminished circumstances of present post-society era, but I can't say the transitions are entirely trouble free.

[Tubajug]

Go back and forth much? I'm on Eb these days, works fine in the diminished circumstances of present post-society era, but I can't say the transitions are entirely trouble free.

I've played a BBb sousaphone at a few things here and there. I've brought my King BBb concert horn to lessons too. I've been pretty good at switching so far, only a few little goofs.

[bloke]

Until all of the “music of the people“ gigs were shut down, E-flat was my weakest read yet my most often played (you guessed it: for gigs where no reading is involved).
I probably won’t be picking it up again until Thanksgiving Day for a country club brunch.
…and yeah: I can read dots and flags and play E-flat tuba, but I have to think about it just a wee bit…
…the other three common lengths of tubas:
I can read the dots and flags, blow the tuba, and concentrate on looking at (assuming there are some) the pretty girls.

E-flat tuba: I catch my mind jumping back-and-forth between actually reading the bass clef notes as they are, and reading the notes as treble clef B-flat trumpet music.
For those of you naughty folk - who like to steal the piccolo players’ thunder on the 4th of July:
If you are playing that obbligato part - in the Trio strain of Stars & Stripes Forever - on anything but an E-flat tuba, you are doing a whole bunch of unnecessary work.

[Tubajug]

I can definitely see the appeal of having an Eb as an "all around" horn. It would certainly need to be bigger than mine to support a large group, but it sure is fun to become proficient on something else!

[the elephant]

I don't see anything in the rule book about you not being allowed to own both a small AND a large Eb, Jordan.

Just sayin'…

[bort2.0]

I like mine.

[Tubajug]

I don't see anything in the rule book about you not being allowed to own both a small AND a large Eb, Jordan.

Just sayin'…

Haha, I have no intention of owning only one... in fact I plan on building myself one in each of the four main keys (a CC horn is next on the list). I'm just saying that after hearing people talk about having one all-around horn, I'm seeing the appeal of an Eb in that role.

Edit: I just realized your comment was about owning a large and small Eb, not just one horn in general. Oops. But for now it will be just the small Eb.

[bloke]

General comment:
(and sorry to wander away from the E-flat theme, but just jump right back into the E-flat thing and ignore this post)
Building tubas is fun, but building something that’s actually better - than the best that can be bought - is really challenging.
I believe my Buescher C helicon fell into that category (kicking the butt of just about any 4/4 size C tuba thing that I’ve ever played), the problem being (OPTICS !!!) that it isn’t shaped like a concert tuba…and I’m remarkably pleased with my York-33-sized Holton B-flat thing with a heavily adulterated King valve section on it. Intonation and response are remarkable…but those are things that I was able to test BEFORE tearing the thing down and building it back up, so those are not to be credited to me. I’m thinking about how the market continues to build stuff that’s the size of King, and ignores this slightly smaller York 33 size, which is probably (almost certainly) more of a kick-ass size tuba.
———-
I’m sure that I couldn’t stick together some large E-flat that would come anywhere close to playing as well as the best 3+1 compensating E-flats, and neither could I grab some 6/4 parts and build anything that could come anywhere close to rivaling a Miraphone Siegfried 98 B-flat.

final comment:
I am a C tuba player through and through (just a few years shy of five decades), but (with perhaps a handful or so of exceptions) so many of the C models are so disappointing, and play as if somebody took a decent B-flat tuba and hastily chopped them down in their factory.

[Tubajug]

To your point about building tubas, I don't have access to the best of any of them, so what I build, as long as it works for me, is good enough. Though I do think what I've got is pretty good, but again, I've never had anything else to compare it to...

One reason I attempted my Eb project was that it had such nice sound, tuning characteristics, etc as a three-banger that I figured converting it to five valves could only make it better (assuming I didn't do any major damage in the process).

[bloke]

Once again, I’m trying to drive the thread off topic and no one needs to allow me to do this. They can just go ahead with the main topic…
… but part of the topic is “frankentubas”, even though the main topic is “becoming an E-flat player”…and I have addressed some of both, though have I posted about my own experiences far too much…
===========
I don’t have anything that I would label a “hobby”, and - when I (rarely) build tubas, it can’t be for self-amusement…or even for selling them, because it takes way too many hours to expect any sort of profit.
That’s why - when I do it, they need to be pre-testable and to prove themselves as (not just probably “pretty good“, but) remarkable (even if beat up, with a bore size that may or may not be ideal, and probably other serious problems) before I even start tearing them apart.

Even when I rarely tackle (not metamorphoses, but) “regular” restorations of tubas to sell or for customers, such projects end up having to sit for long periods of time between long blasts of small customer jobs, which absolutely must be addressed.

… I guess the main point being that – unlike a hobbyist - if I invest this much time in some tuba metamorphosis, it absolutely must pay off for me, and end up being something that will be used regularly for generating income… and that requires any completed projects to receive remarkably high marks (earned from a remarkably critical judge: me).
…again (previous post in this thread) it’s a rare project tuba that plays as well or better than something that can be bought - made by a manufacturer, assuming a discriminating choice of a manufactured model.

[Doc]

I believe my Buescher C helicon fell into that category (kicking the butt of just about any 4/4 size C tuba thing that I’ve ever played), the problem being (OPTICS !!!) that it isn’t shaped like a concert tuba…

I wish I had been able to acquire that instrument. It would definitely be a user, not a case queen.

I’m thinking about how the market continues to build stuff that’s the size of King, and ignores this slightly smaller York 33 size, which is probably (almost certainly) more of a kick-ass size tuba.

Agreed. I think that's why I find models like the Kanstul BBb, the Wessex Oregon (hasn't been brought back yet, but I like the idea), and especially the MW 2011RA (maybe none in the US?) so intriguing. I'd like to play that series of MW HoJo tubas and see how they really play. I'm not sure it's as big as a 33, although the bell sure looks big enough.

I’m sure that I couldn’t stick together some large E-flat that would come anywhere close to playing as well as the best 3+1 compensating E-flats, and neither could I grab some 6/4 parts and build anything that could come anywhere close to rivaling a Miraphone Siegfried 98 B-flat.

I'm not quite sure how you could improve on a 98 (except to change the address of one from Waldkraiburg to bloke's bedroom). There simply isn't anything else like it. Nothing like the 497 either, albeit of a different flavor.

final comment:
I am a C tuba player through and through (just a few years shy of five decades), but (with perhaps a handful or so of exceptions) so many of the C models are so disappointing, and play as if somebody took a decent B-flat tuba and hastily chopped them down in their factory.

Thankfully, there are some nice exceptions.

Doc (who hopes 2022 will be the year of the Eb)

[donn]

My Eb is of the larger sort, and I use it as the only tuba in band music, off and on. Back when it was by far the best instrument I had, sure. Now that my band is down to 7 people, OK (but even then, when we appeared in public, I went back to BBb for that.) I sometimes get crossed over on the notes.

When I'm reading, I'm playing classic marches. John Phillip Sousa, Karl King kind of stuff. It's arranged for a tuba section that could have 3V Eb tubas - I don't recall ever seeing the parts go below A without divisi at the octave. On the other hand, there's clearly some thought about octave divisi beyond what's necessary to accommodate those Eb tubas. At present I will go either way - sometimes take the lower line on my Eb, sometimes the upper. Some passages I think really call for that bottom line, and there's no way an Eb can deliver on it like the BBb does, down at Bb below the staff or lower - the bell can be as big as you want, but most of that tubing has to be small. On the other hand, up in the staff, the bass tuba has a presence that's somewhat missing with a contrabass. So perhaps it's a dilemma, but if I had to commit to one or the other of my lovely tubas, I'd go contrabass.

[LargeTuba]

This post makes me wanna hurry-up and finish my own Eb project.

I sure am enjoying my Yamaha Eb. Eb just makes sense to me, I don't know why. I've never really had the interest in owning an F. I feel like I've been able to achieve the sound I want only playing Eb tubas.

[bloke]

This post makes me wanna hurry-up and finish my own Eb project.

I sure am enjoying my Yamaha Eb. Eb just makes sense to me, I don't know why. I've never really had the interest in owning an F. I feel like I've been able to achieve the sound I want only playing Eb tubas.

Tonight, I have to play this...
(A few months ago, I had to perform it with no rehearsal - and without even being notified that it was programmed...
...one of these morning concerts where corporate personnel are brought it, a concert is played for them and with brief lectures pointing out the analogies between orchestral musicians and section leaders working together towards a common goal, and corporate department heads doing the same.
https://memphissymphony.org/leading-from-every-chair )
Yes...I've played it a whole bunch of times since the first time I played it, several decades ago.
Yes...It's very easy.
No...I would prefer to not have to play it on an E-flat tuba.

Every length of tuba (assuming it's a non-suck example of that particular length of tuba) has its advantages.

MSND Overture Mendelssohn.png (198.16 KiB) Viewed 1211 times

[Doc]

This post makes me wanna hurry-up and finish my own Eb project.

I sure am enjoying my Yamaha Eb. Eb just makes sense to me, I don't know why. I've never really had the interest in owning an F. I feel like I've been able to achieve the sound I want only playing Eb tubas.

Despite both being classified as "bass tuba," F tuba and Eb tuba can be different in application, depending on the type of instrument. A traditional German F tuba does not have the same sound profile as a 981 Eb, although a 2250 F tuba is not that far of a departure from a 981. But the sound of a Norwegian Star is not that far of a departure from a traditional German F tuba. I guess it all depends on the sound you seek, and/or what fingering system you prefer.

Hmm... similarities and variances certainly exist when compared:
- 181/Elektra/PT15/Symphonie vs. 981/British style/Willson/MWPT
- MW 2250 vs. MW 2141 vs. 981/British/Willson
- Alexander F vs. Wessex Tubby Eb

So an F tubist can find an F that sounds like an F, and they can find an F that sounds like an Eb. Similarly, an Eb player can find an Eb that sounds like an Eb, one the sounds like an F, and at least one or two that could replace CC. Your call.

______
I often wonder if I shouldn't have compromised and bought a 2250 (F tuba that leans Eb-sound and Eb-playability). But I really like the traditional F sound profile for what I do - it's the F tuba sound I have in my head. I just need to acquire an Eb that fits the Eb sound I have in my head (right now, that sound is in the JP 377/BH Imperial/Eastman 853 neighborhood).

The main reason I haven't acquired an Eb (aside of some reluctance with reading) is that I'm not sure an Eb would pay for itself like all the others do. But I still want one. Of course, if I had big money, I'd add a 2250 also. And probably add a Wessex Tubby. And a bunch of other tubas. But I digress...

[hrender]

FWIW Dillon’s has several demo Eastman 853 on sale.

[Doc]

FWIW Dillon’s has several demo Eastman 853 on sale.

I know. And there is a Martin Wilk-ified one here on TF. And I have a line on a JP377.

After squaring up 2020 with Uncle Sam, I need to wait and save some more dough (self-employment t a x e s are a *#&$^%!!!). Hopefully, it will give me time to do some trials, comparisons, etc. to narrow in on "the one."

[DandyZ629]

It's beautiful! Relating to Bloke's post...there has never been a better performance of that overture than was done by the LSO/Previn with John Fletcher, on an Eb. Of course Fletcher could have done it on his Rudy 5/4 and achieved the same artistry.

[bloke]

I haven’t heard every performance of that overture, so I really can’t comment intelligently on which of thousands of performances was the very best.
I do know this:
It’s easier (for me) to play an upper octave E major scale really well in tune on a really good F tuba than it is on a really good E-flat tuba.
Being “The Eddie Haskell Of Paid Tuba Players”, I’m going to always choose “easier“.

“… because I’ve not jolly well got an F”
- John Fletcher, tubaist