38 or 40k?

[humBell]

https://ebay.com/itm/133923948843

(bell sold seperately.. but also listed by the same seller)

[iiipopes]

By definition, the 38K had 3 conventional valves and the 40K had 4 conventional valves. This is wayyy before the invention of the short-throw valves of the 20K. BUT...compare the picture in the listing with this picture of a 40K in the Conn Loyalist souzy pages:

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn40K1923image.html

Notice that even with the differences in the picture angles, the main tuning slide may be shorter in the ebay listing, which may mean the high pitch version - 41K. With that in mind, this bugle and valve block appear to have 4 valves, but shorter tuning slides, so I would surmise with the appearance of the size of the bell tenon that this is the remains of a 41K.

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnSousaModels.html

[humBell]

Thanks! I was meaning to ask the high/low pitch question, and was too lazy to review the model numbers.

[bloke]

I've only encountered these that (if shorter) were only "somewhat" shorter.
The extreme tilt of the lower mouthpipe (during that era - along with the subtle additional tilt of the valveset - to accommodate the 4th circuit) is (a favorite word, here: ergonomically) THREE-tuning-bits-friendly anyway, which seems to do the trick.

Otherwise, those two sides/two sizes of main-slide slide tubes (even the vintage thicker-walled ones) are not rarities (as many can be found in drawers/boxes/piles of junk parts), and installing longer ones (to reduce the necessary pull for 440 or 442) doesn't create an odd appearance.

summary:
I wouldn't worry too much about whether one of these seems to be the (??) A=445ish version or the A=438ish version.
I would just (if/when buying from a picture) probably pray to the not-too-worn-valves gods.

[iiipopes]

Summary:
I wouldn't worry too much about whether one of these seems to be the (??) A=445ish version or the A=438ish version.
I would just (if/when buying from a picture) probably pray to the not-too-worn-valves gods.

Indeed. Bloke answered the second question yet to be asked after I answered the first question. If it is the high-pitched version, you may have enough length in the main tuning slide to pull down to pitch, or use a third bit. If not, it is a rather straightforward matter to put longer inner tubes on the main tuning slide bow.