MAW valves in an older King 2341

[MG]

I was reading a post from July of this year about MAW valves and someone (I believe it was Bloke) mentioned that the MAW valves were designed to fit in the older King 2341’s. I have an early 80’s King. The valves are just fine and I have no problems, concerns or issues with them. But I have been curious as to whether the MAW valves would make a noticeable improvement. Has anyone replaced their King valves with the MAW valves and what were the results? Any information you folks could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you kindly.

[the elephant]

He might make them for King valves, but the design sold by Meinlschmidt is only for the MW Big Valve piston set.

The valves in the old 2341 and 2141 are interchangeable, I think, and I think they are also interchangeable with the current 2341. So, if Martin sells MAW valves for the King piston casing block they *should* fit your tuba.

Note that MAW valves remove part of the restrictions imposed by the curlicue nature of the ports and knuckles through a piston set. They do not make anything *better* but make them *different*. Usually, these differences are perceived as improvements, but I know of a few folks who hated the changes made by MAW valves and promptly sold them.

Also, the whole "point of diminishing returns" idea comes into play here, as a set of four MAW pistons will set you back enough that you could have bought another 1241. They are not cheap at all, and such a huge expense will not be something you can expect to recoup if you sell the tuba later. Upgrades to cars do not increase the resale value in most cases, and that applies here, too, in most cases.

Further, your casings could leak around the ports, due to wear from the age of a 1241. This is not a new tuba, and wear can actually be worse to yellow brass casings than to nickel-plated pistons over the long haul. In all honesty, I would have your valves checked for leakage before dropping a lot of cash on fancy valves that may not do what they are supposed to do because the casings you dropped them into are shot. So make sure to investigate that first to save you some potential disappointment or frustration.

Personally, I like the MAW valves and plan on looking into a set for my Nirschl-made pistons. I am pleased with them on this 2165 I have sitting here, and I think they would do some good for my Holton 335 (which has a Nirschl valve set on it). But before I do that I have to carefully check to see if my piston set leaks. If it does, are the casings at fault or the pistons? I don't plan to drop upwards of $1500 on a set of custom MAW valves if the casings leak. (I think I'm good on this, but it is a lot of money, so I need to be certain.)

Keep in mind that Mr. Wilk is the only person who can answer your questions 100% accurately. (He is not known for his phone etiquette. If you call him, be prepared for curt answers. Have everything you want to ask him written down. Do not try to chew the fat with him. He does not enjoy doing things on the phone unless it is an actual sale. He is a nice man, but he prefers to not work via the telephone.)

Since this is the situation, any hard information from him would be something worth sharing in a post here, both for now and for the archives.

Good luck!

[bloke]

There is a "King" valveset which he offers...I bought/bartered a set (used) for my fat-dwarf Holton...and I still owe that person repair work on their instruments in exchange for them.

There is a porting configuration discrepancy between older and later Kings (correct?), so I don't know if he offers both configurations of #1 pistons.

(My oem pistons were in "good" shape, but were ever-so-very-very-slightly not-quite as close-tolerance to the casings as I would have liked.
The Meinlschmidt-fabricated King aftermarket pistons were ever so slightly larger in diameter (whereas all four required a bit of fitting...which must be done CAREFULLY, as those open-side pistons are actually a bit "flexible" ), but - once installed - I now have closer tolerances, and ( ) can now pretend that the instrument plays better than before.

[the elephant]

… There is a porting configuration discrepancy between older and later Kings…

I did not know this. I have never owned an old 1241. I have noted that the porting matches up, but a quick visual check of the exterior is useless since the only way to really discover this would be to try to fit a newer piston design into the older tuba, which I have never had to do.

Thanks for the information.

… Meinlschmidt-fabricated King aftermarket pistons…

These do not appear anywhere on their website. I thought anything other than Big Valve pistons would have to be purchased directly from Mr. Wilk.

Thanks for that information, too.

[bloke]

Both are King #1.
I'm thinking that the not-three-in-a-row is the current config, yes...??
(because the King/Meinlschmidt #1's top port is also offset - and ...well...the Holton doesn't play "funny", so...)



(grabbed envelope - too much back-lighting - from the laptop screen)

[bort2.0]

MAW valves sell pretty well when they are parted out.

So if you have a horn with MAW valves, if you sell the MAW's separately and then sell the tuba with the original valves, it seems to work out pretty well that way.

In general though, you're right, modifications lose a TON of value right away. I'll never forget a guy I knew in college wanted to sell his heavily modified mountain bike to a friend of mine... something like a $500 bike with $1,500 of mods (or whatever). Friend says, "cool bike, how much do you want for it?" Other guy says, "$2,000." Friend says, "You know that's a $500 bike, right...?"

[bloke]

flip side:
(Just give take whichever side of an argument you like, and I'll take what's left over.)

I put some trick pistons into a Corvette, but - before selling the Corvette - I pull out the trick pistons (after 100K miles) and put the oem pistons back in...so how well is that likely to work out...?? (and the same can possibly go for trick tuba pistons, which have been fitted to a particular instrument).

[the elephant]

Both are King #1.
I'm thinking that the not-three-in-a-row is the current config, yes...??
(because the King/Meinlschmidt #1's top port is also offset - and ...well...the Holton doesn't play "funny", so...)



(grabbed envelope - too much back-lighting - from the laptop screen)

I stand corrected… and educated. Thanks!

[Yorkboy]

Both are King #1.
I'm thinking that the not-three-in-a-row is the current config, yes...??
(because the King/Meinlschmidt #1's top port is also offset - and ...well...the Holton doesn't play "funny", so...)



(grabbed envelope - too much back-lighting - from the laptop screen)

This is valuable advice, thanks.

(FWIW, the one on the right looks like it could be a sousaphone piston, or a Reynolds #1 “angle orientation” piston?).

I’ve got a King here missing the first valve piston, and now I will be sure to evaluate it more closely before I purchase a replacement.

[York-aholic]

This is valuable advice, thanks.

(FWIW, the one on the right looks like it could be a sousaphone piston, or a Reynolds #1 “angle orientation” piston?).

I’ve got a King here missing the first valve piston, and now I will be sure to evaluate it more closely before I purchase a replacement.

I was thinking the same thing. I had a piston here that fit a King set in diameter and most of the ports lined up but one port was off 'rotationally'. I'm sure that I sent that suspected #1 Reynolds or King sousaphone (?) piston off to live in someone else's spare parts box.

I do know that the currently manufactured #4 valve for a new style (fixed upright bell) 2341 fits the casings for the older 1241 and 2341. The casings I have the replacement #4 in is from the early 70s (493,xxx).

The 1st valve (which definitely lines up with the casing ports) looks like the one on the left in @bloke 's picture.