New (to me) 184-5U. Putting my money where my mouth is

[tubanh84]

I've been saying for a long time that I don't love the huge American-style tubas. I've also generally advocated for smaller horns in general. Consistent with that, I've been playing a Gnagey 4/4 for the last few years. Smaller? Yes. American style? Also yes. So halfway there.

Yesterday, I finally took delivery of a new (to me) 1960s Miraphone 184-5U CC with the 2/3 left-hand 5th valve. Which I have always said was the most fun horn I'd ever played.

It definitely will have a learning curve. Intonation in the meat and potatoes register is great. D and E in the staff will take some work. and G in the staff and D above the staff need to be 1-3. At least for now with me not used to the horn. And also not having played regularly in months.

Re-learning the 2/3 5th valve low register will also take some time to be fluid, after 20 years with a long whole step.

But lord was it a blast unpacking it and playing it last night. I tried it with a Helleberg, Helleberg 7B, Cooley Helleberg, and Mike Finn H. The H had been my main mouthpiece for the past 6 years. SO FAR the Cooley provides the best tone, intonation, and pop to the low register. However, that was also true on my Gnagey when I was out of shape. Once I was back into a decent condition, the H was far superior. But this is a very different horn, so we'll see how it all plays out.

Anywho. I'll post more when I'm back in better shape

Anyone with strong opinions on mouthpieces for these horns, please chime in. I'm not in a place (Alaska) where I can easily test a lot of mouthpieces.

[bort2.0]

But lord was it a blast unpacking it and playing it last night.

Isn't that the best feeling?

Congrats! We'd love to see it sometime.

[bloke]

They weren’t the most amazingly in tune tubas, but so many used them before there were very many playable F tubas available on the side of the Atlantic ocean.
I wonder if the newer version’s tooling was put through that computer program that determines the best compromise overall taper of the bows for overall best intonation.

[tubanh84]

They weren’t the most amazingly in tune tubas,

That was my memory of them, and it's absolutely the case with this one above C in the staff. But it's not anything that has not been overcome by people in the past, and it's not so bad that I can't work it out now.

The Cooley Helleberg sits further in the receiver than my other mouthpieces, which I think contributes to make the intonation a lot better. It's the same effect it has on the Gnagey. But I'm so out of playing shape right now that I don't want to make any generalizations.

[tubanh84]

But lord was it a blast unpacking it and playing it last night.

Isn't that the best feeling?

Congrats! We'd love to see it sometime.

Thanks! I'd been in a funk for months, not playing. NOT THE CASE ANYMORE. I'll post some things once my playing justifies it....

[bloke]

Most of us are more experienced, may be a bit stronger than we were then, whereby experience and strength assist us in moving pitches around with more ease.
As a set of examples, I almost never put down alternates for flat fifth partials, anymore… I suspect there are quite a few like me…probably you.

[tofu]

.

[bloke]

I might’ve played a 185 in C before (??), but I can’t remember. Oddly, some really early-vintage 185 instruments in B-flat have come through here.
I suspect that I would really like a 185 in C:
> a little bit smaller/probably more compact-sounding than a Rudy 3/4, which is a defacto 4/4

I seem to recall that the 185C was the go-to instrument for the Cookeville, Tennessee students - decades ago.

[tubanh84]

Last night's session: I started out with the Cooley Helleberg, which had been the winner of Helleberg Night (over the 120 and the 7B). It was still good, but still presented some intonation issues (5th and 6th partials).

Then I spent a half hour each with the Bobo Solo and Olka CB1. Both were far and away better intonation-wise than the Hellebergs. The top-space G more or less locked in. The issues with the E/Eb/D in the staff were still there, but less so. The Bobo Solo (not unexpectedly) had a tighter sound, and it made the low register less accessible.

The Olka was a revelation on the horn. On my Gnagey, it produces the biggest sound, but causes the most intonation issues (mostly in the meat and potatoes range). On the 184, it created wider slots to move notes with my lips. I still can't quite get the 5th partial locked in without the standard alternate fingerings, but they're close. And I'm still getting back into shape. And the low register pops. It speaks much more immediately and consistently than on my Gnagey or the PT6 before it.

The other interesting thing is that the Olka mouthpiece allows me to finger the pedal register (F# and below) a half step higher than the other mouthpieces on certain notes. Using those fingerings, the notes don't need a ton of lip work or slide pulling to be in tune.

So. For now I'm going to work on the horn on the Olka until I don't want to anymore. Once I get a space and can produce reasonable recordings, I may be able to post some stuff.

[Casca Grossa]

I have two 184 CC tubas from the 1980's I have been experimenting with a Blokepiece solo and Miraphone C4. Both are great choices for the horn IMHO. The C4 can give off a lot of sound and is pretty meaty in the low end. The upper end takes a little work though. I have found that the Blokepiece solo just suits me a little better. It darkens the sound a bit, really makes the upper register of the horn easier, and I can still get it to make a lot of noise without breaking up the sound. I think if I were playing a with a lot of low notes marked ffffff, I would use the C4, but I am going to stick with the solo as the overall mouthpiece. Intonation isn't so tricky on either of my horns. E and Eb in the staff need alternate fingerings and G at the top of the staff is still a work in progress for me. Otherwise all notes are pretty spot on as long as I have the MTS pulled out quite a bit. All of this would probably improve if I could stick to a regular practice schedule though.

[Casca Grossa]

I've been saying for a long time that I don't love the huge American-style tubas. I've also generally advocated for smaller horns in general. Consistent with that, I've been playing a Gnagey 4/4 for the last few years. Smaller? Yes. American style? Also yes. So halfway there.

Yesterday, I finally took delivery of a new (to me) 1960s Miraphone 184-5U CC with the 2/3 left-hand 5th valve. Which I have always said was the most fun horn I'd ever played.

It definitely will have a learning curve. Intonation in the meat and potatoes register is great. D and E in the staff will take some work. and G in the staff and D above the staff need to be 1-3. At least for now with me not used to the horn. And also not having played regularly in months.

Re-learning the 2/3 5th valve low register will also take some time to be fluid, after 20 years with a long whole step.

But lord was it a blast unpacking it and playing it last night. I tried it with a Helleberg, Helleberg 7B, Cooley Helleberg, and Mike Finn H. The H had been my main mouthpiece for the past 6 years. SO FAR the Cooley provides the best tone, intonation, and pop to the low register. However, that was also true on my Gnagey when I was out of shape. Once I was back into a decent condition, the H was far superior. But this is a very different horn, so we'll see how it all plays out.

Anywho. I'll post more when I'm back in better shape

Anyone with strong opinions on mouthpieces for these horns, please chime in. I'm not in a place (Alaska) where I can easily test a lot of mouthpieces.

I meant to ask, did you buy the one that was listed on Reverb. If I remember correctly, the seller was somewhere on the West Coast. I considered buying that one but I have never been able to wrap my brain around the 5th valve for the left hand. Hope you enjoy it.

[bloke]

OFF TOPIC:

Does anyone own a 184 with an Olds O-99 bell installed?

[tubanh84]

I've been saying for a long time that I don't love the huge American-style tubas. I've also generally advocated for smaller horns in general. Consistent with that, I've been playing a Gnagey 4/4 for the last few years. Smaller? Yes. American style? Also yes. So halfway there.

Yesterday, I finally took delivery of a new (to me) 1960s Miraphone 184-5U CC with the 2/3 left-hand 5th valve. Which I have always said was the most fun horn I'd ever played.

It definitely will have a learning curve. Intonation in the meat and potatoes register is great. D and E in the staff will take some work. and G in the staff and D above the staff need to be 1-3. At least for now with me not used to the horn. And also not having played regularly in months.

Re-learning the 2/3 5th valve low register will also take some time to be fluid, after 20 years with a long whole step.

But lord was it a blast unpacking it and playing it last night. I tried it with a Helleberg, Helleberg 7B, Cooley Helleberg, and Mike Finn H. The H had been my main mouthpiece for the past 6 years. SO FAR the Cooley provides the best tone, intonation, and pop to the low register. However, that was also true on my Gnagey when I was out of shape. Once I was back into a decent condition, the H was far superior. But this is a very different horn, so we'll see how it all plays out.

Anywho. I'll post more when I'm back in better shape

Anyone with strong opinions on mouthpieces for these horns, please chime in. I'm not in a place (Alaska) where I can easily test a lot of mouthpieces.

I meant to ask, did you buy the one that was listed on Reverb. If I remember correctly, the seller was somewhere on the West Coast. I considered buying that one but I have never been able to wrap my brain around the 5th valve for the left hand. Hope you enjoy it.

That's the one! Wrote the guy and bought it sight unseen. It was from a shop called Brass Gurus in San Jose. Very easy to work with. Shipping was overly complicated because they waaaaay overpacked it and it needed to go freight. But at least it got here in one piece. It was exactly in the condition they said it was.

I'd played this exact model horn years ago for a hot second, and so I'm pretty confident that I could get the 2/3 valve back into my head. It's still not fluid yet, but it will get there.

[dp]

Anyone with strong opinions on mouthpieces for these horns, please chime in. I'm not in a place (Alaska) where I can easily test a lot of mouthpieces.

Best all-around MP for a 184 for you? I'll suggest trying something that is more cup than funnel. You may find a greater flexibility for the here-and-there notes that are messing with your head right now. My personal choice for MPs hasn't changed too much over the last couple decades. I use the same, fairly-deep funnel-shaped MP on the big horns (Rose Orchestra.) Fairly shallow cup on the small horns, either a C4 or Rose Solo. These work for me across the range of horns because the rim faces are all very similar, more rounded and not at all sharp like the Helleberg style MPs you are used to. Give some judicious thought to what recommendations you will get in this thread (probably a lot!) and to save some coin see if you can find used on eBay.

Congrats on the horn, I had some correspondence with that San Jose shop but clearly that 184 was meant to wind up in AK rather than CO! Enjoy!

[Tubajug]

OFF TOPIC:

Does anyone own a 184 with an Olds O-99 bell installed?

I don't, but I tried putting a 184 bell on a Bach version of an Olds 0-99. It was... interesting.

[bloke]

"Olds O-99 bell on 184C" was a "thing" for a while (a Tommy Johnson thing...??) decades ago in California.

When I had a bell off of one (once, during a repair), I tried it out (without soldering in place, as I had an O-99 bell laying around) for 30 minutes or so...interesting...obviously, not as strident...