Where did they go?

[Tim Jackson]

Seems like my pastime for the last 20 years has been to watch all the cool vintage horns come and go on Tuba Forum, Tubnet, eBay, Craigs lIst, and all the tuba/brass shops. I see fewer vintage horns surface these days. Are there more players that "collect" hoard these days? I know I have more tubas than I can get to (only 6-7) not counting sousaphones. I guess older pros kept what they have and like for a lifetime. Seems like the "up and comers" trade and continually search for the perfect horn (for the perfect job they may never have) just joking - that's not funny/sad. I know I have ended up with more horns because I have been searching for my dream horn for some time now. Now I will start letting a few go - which is easier if you don't fall in love with horns you really don't use. I love/can't part with my 6/4 York I haven't played in two years. Think I'll get it out this week.

But still, it seems like I don't see those pre-70s & 80s horns along with some of the odd vintage gems come up for sale anymore. More collectors than players? I see some collections worthy of a new series "TUBA HOARDERS"

Just sayin' it seems like there must be way more tubas out there than players!
I guess eventually we will see everything surface again.

A famous saying/question from many wives: How many tubas does one man need?
The answer of the day: the six you see and the six that are hidden in the attic!

Just sold one of my favorites! Tim

[bloke]

possible explanation:
I just casually mentioned to a friend of mine that I have a c. 40-year-old Bach 36 (no F attachment) trombone in perfect condition - other than the factory lacquer being distressed.
They immediately asked if I would please sell it to them.
I’m wondering if the really good stuff doesn’t really require public advertising to get it sold for “seller-attractive” prices…(??)

…When I have Selmer, Paris Mk VI saxophones to sell, I also find that I only need to mention to a few local people that I have something, stick a price on it that I like, and it ends up being sold.

…etc., etc…

I have also found that if I have something here that falls into the same category - but that is NOT ready to sell, that I should not even mention that it’s here, because I’ll be badgered by several people, when I really don’t currently have the time to get it ready to sell (after inadvertently mentioning that it is here).

As much as there is a current attempt to turn society upside down, there is just as much of a current tendency for people to reach back to the past, and one way to do it is by owning something really nice from the past.

[Tim Jackson]

I miss stuff like this. I remember when this was listed for sale.

Martin-Tuba-Monster-4rfv[2].jpg (20.43 KiB) Viewed 1415 times

[bort2.0]

I think we are exhausting our (small to begin with) supply of old and interesting things. And when people buy them, it becomes part of a new and similarly packed-away collection for another 50 years.

[bloke]

eBay fees are now ridiculous, along with all of their requirements. (That very unusual tuba was sold on eBay.)

If any of that stuff is to be found, it’s probably going to be found on “Facebook Marketplace”, now.

The Internet began being used widely in the 90s, and became predominant within a decade. Before that, almost none of these types of things could be found anywhere. As ownership of this sort of thing has been - pretty much - sorted out (via the Internet), I believe that the sorting has just about ended, and it’s mostly only going to be available when an individual - with one or two of these types of things - passes away, or when a hoarder/collector- of many of these things - passes away.

Before anyone accuses me of being a hoarder, realize that everything that I have - that I don’t use myself - that is in playing condition ends up being immediately offered for sale. Further, when I realize that I have become unenamored with a future project, I sell off all the parts to that project to someone who is enamored with it.

[Three Valves]

After following subject matter for about 20+ years or so the incidence of finding something "new" drops off significantly...

[bort2.0]

After following subject matter for about 20+ years or so the incidence of finding something "new" drops off significantly...

Yes, but eventually something you saw 20 years ago could be offered for sale, and you'll get a second chance.

I missed out on buying a cool vintage German bass trombone about 10 years ago. Well, not missed out, I dragged my feet for months, because I knew I'd never use it and I'm not a collector. The advice that I received then (paraphrased here... because the original advice was confusing and I largely misinterpreted it) was "Buy it, because it's probably the last one on Earth". I had heard the advice as "Run from it like it's the end of the Earth."

[tubanh84]

My guess is that (at least partially) it is because the older/vintage horns are "known." Their tendencies, issues, benefits, etc... Are all documented and discussed. So if someone goes buys one, it's to get THAT HORN. Unlike buying the "shiny new thing" that 6 months later gets resold as "great, but not what I wanted."

There's also a sense of "for fun" with the old horns. No one buys a York copy "for fun." They buy it because that's what Very Good Players Play and work with it. People who would buy a horn "for fun" are more likely to keep it "for fun." Because even if it doesn't do the job perfectly, that was part of the bargain when getting it in the first place.

If I were to buy a 36j or something, I'd know what I was getting. So there wouldn't be any weird surprises - Just whether I am actually happy with what I knew I was getting.

If that makes sense? Who knows. I'm rambling again. This is all just surmise.

[Tim Jackson]

Here's a good example. The BBb York I bought on eBay back around 2008. "The last owner was a collector of antique oddities somewhere in the Midwest. When I received the horn it appeared to have been sitting on a shelf wrapped in plastic for 30-40 years. The slides and valves appear to have
about ten years of use on them. There are no signs of any repair or buffing to the original finish"

I think a paid just over 7K which seemed insane and still crazy, some will think, for a 3 valve horn. I have never regretted the buy/find.

When I received the horn the tarnish was very even and looked like gun blue. I have enjoyed the horn immensely and even had it out on a few symphony gigs - how cool that was. I have not really put that much time in on it and have only had it on gigs maybe a dozen times.

Now I love the horn and can't stand to part with it... but I will one day. It is being hoarded. The first collector kept it on the shelf for probably 50 or so years and now I've had it for around 14 years. Very little mileage on this instrument.

It will be exciting the day this hits eBay. Not exciting if I don't find a crazy person with a lot of money!

York Front.jpg (130.64 KiB) Viewed 1386 times

[hrender]

The number of users of ebay has nearly doubled in the last 10 years (citation here), so there is a larger pool of potential buyers. There are more services that serve a similar function as well. Forums like this have increased the interest in acquiring older horns. I think, too, that the number of "collections" of older horns, either by individuals or institutions such as the recently mentioned at Northwest College, may be increasing as well, although I have no hard data to support that.

The number of old horns has not increased. Plus, horns age out as they get used and re-used.

Still, cool things pop up regularly. There are a number of cool horns for sale that I hesitated on that disappeared, never to be seen again (at least by me). One reason I scan listings regularly is to avoid that. The McElligot's Pool approach.

[Stryk]

I can only imagine when, in 50 years from now, those antique Jinbaos start hitting the market!

[Mary Ann]

I've noticed that too. I didn't know if it was because of everybody and everything having its head in the sand for the last two years, or what. Lately I've contacted sellers of two tubas I'd like to have, and not been first in line, or they didn't want to ship, which is totally, completely, unequivocally understandable given the chaos in all kinds of shipping now. I've even thought of springing for something I don't really want just to have it sitting in the corner, even though my chances of playing anywhere anytime soon are about nil. One wants at least one horse in the stable. (PS: I would still feel bad having the NStar sitting there unplayed, despite my love-in with it. Something like that should be being played, not sitting in a corner to be gazed at.)
All I see on the bay is crap from India.

[bloke]

Prior to the late 1990s to 2010 or so, it wasn’t eBay… It was pawnshops.
The only decent vintage tuba I ever picked up in a pawnshop was an old Holton BB 340.

[Tim Jackson]

That's what I was thinking earlier today... the days of the Pawnshops! And even better, the days before Pawn shops started having outside folks put a value on their stuff. The Pawnshop scene around Mobile was excellent in the 70s & 80s. A few things that stick out that I pasted over - a nice 4 piston Holton euphonium, a jenco celeste, a Gibson Les Paul bass, and a bass trumpet. Back then I didn't have the money anyway but I ended up buying plenty.
My vintage snare drum collection includes an original Ludwig black beauty. That collection is another story!

My best tuba find was at an antique/thrift shop - turn of the century Cerveny BBb kaiser ($100 and I didn't even ask for lower!) - it was painted white with a faux bird's nest in the bell. Some kind of art piece I guess. The tone of that horn beat anything I have ever heard. Truly amazing instrument but the rocker arm rotor stops and clock springs made playing it like taking a Model T out for a spin. I sold it.

Now, as a seller and buyer, I like the idea of being able to shop & sell worldwide. It is very cool.

All this talk is getting me excited about selling something because at this point it's the only way I can ever buy anything else.

[KingTuba1241X]

Here's a good example. The BBb York I bought on eBay back around 2008. "The last owner was a collector of antique oddities somewhere in the Midwest. When I received the horn it appeared to have been sitting on a shelf wrapped in plastic for 30-40 years. The slides and valves appear to have
about ten years of use on them. There are no signs of any repair or buffing to the original finish"

I think a paid just over 7K which seemed insane and still crazy, some will think, for a 3 valve horn. I have never regretted the buy/find.

When I received the horn the tarnish was very even and looked like gun blue. I have enjoyed the horn immensely and even had it out on a few symphony gigs - how cool that was. I have not really put that much time in on it and have only had it on gigs maybe a dozen times.

Now I love the horn and can't stand to part with it... but I will one day. It is being hoarded. The first collector kept it on the shelf for probably 50 or so years and now I've had it for around 14 years. Very little mileage on this instrument.

It will be exciting the day this hits eBay. Not exciting if I don't find a crazy person with a lot of money! York Front.jpg

That along with eBay fees and taxes, will never sell on eBay. Like was previously mentioned, it's an item that MUST be sold on FB Marketplace or word of mouth. I mean, you could sit on it for 5 years on eBay if you want...it's cool but not practical to about 85% of the younger generation of players and that last 15% of guys who are interested don't want to jump through eBay hoops likely.

[KingTuba1241X]

I can only imagine when, in 50 years from now, those antique Jinbaos start hitting the market!

They're already hitting the market (same horns) maybe 5 times or more as it is from a variety of players. They are good, but at the end of the day they are throw-away horns that "most" people don't get attached sentimentally to.

[Three Valves]

Jimbo are the Pittsburgh Tools of Tuba!!

[bloke]

Based on pricing, I could probably sell a lot of - uh - “stuff”, but - since I already do repair work, and have way too much of it - I don’t need to be buying brand-new stuff that I have to repair before I can sell it.
Also, it’s nice to >> NOT << get emails or phone calls (about stuff that I sold that’s messing up - right out of the box).
It’s also nice to NOT offer BS platitudes to people who do NOT call and do NOT email, because they do NOT have any problems with that which I sold them.

[DandyZ629]

I wrote a long response, but I deleted it. The few times I read it over, it just sounded like "sour grapes" and "whining." I'll just say, it makes me sad when great vintage instruments don't get used and just sit there and rot.

[bloke]

I wrote a long response, but I deleted it. The few times I read it over, it just sounded like "sour grapes" and "whining." I'll just say, it makes me sad when great vintage instruments don't get used and just sit there and rot.

OK, Dan'...
Here's your protest song:
(...and who doesn't like capo-ed guitar...??)