Where did they go?

[Yorkboy]

Prior to the late 1990s to 2010 or so, it wasn’t eBay… It was pawnshops.
The only decent vintage tuba I ever picked up in a pawnshop was an old Holton BB 340.

There’s more than one (1960-70s) story of folks buying bass saxophones in NYC pawnshops for @ $50.

Times HAVE changed.

(And no, I wasn’t so lucky with mine)

[KingTuba1241X]

Pawn Shops can Google or eBay the rough price of a horn nowadays, so there's no getting a deal anymore unless they literally have no clue or don't care. That's 1 in a million..

[Rick Denney]

I think we are exhausting our (small to begin with) supply of old and interesting things. And when people buy them, it becomes part of a new and similarly packed-away collection for another 50 years.

Maybe we are exhausting our supply of old and interesting people.

I have not noticed the same interest on the part of generations coming up in historically interesting things. And young’uns are less likely to buy a vintage tuba when an instrument of similar style (made in Asia) can be bought brand new for less money than classics would have fetched in the past. Low prices are less tempting to sellers.

Stuff still moves, but the buzz about it is less, I think.

Rick “thinking most stuff moves on FB these days, but doesn’t follow that closely” Denney

[matt g]

Back in the 90s (and before), there was a place in either Deltona or Daytona Beach (iirc) that was like a warehouse of old school used tubas. The person had tons of old 2xJs, Kings, and even had a few Marzans along with other stuff. They would sell them off relatively cheap, as I think everything was under $1,000 and something like a Conn 2xJ in good condition was around $500.

But this somewhat points to the issue of domestic manufacturing. The current selection of USA made horns to buy is pretty slim, and some models (e.g. the Conn 5J) seem to be advertised mainly as motivation to buy something else, like the 2341.

Also of note is how the student is progressed now versus decades ago. Eb tubas don’t exist in the current music system and have been replaced with small, and typically uninteresting, BBb tubas. An exception to that was the YBB-103 which was discontinued anyhow…

Consider the USA domestic brands available post WWII for sale versus now. Particularly for Eb and BBb tubas. Then in the 60s-80s European horns gained more favor as professional instruments, creating some diversity of offerings upmarket. Then, somewhat ironically, in the late 80s and through the 90s, the European makers began to emulate more “American” concepts like a 3/4” bore piston set.

With the onslaught of mainland Chinese manufacturing for brass this certainly changes things. It’s somewhat interesting the variations of what’s offered, but sometimes those are notably transient, like the PT-6P clone.

I’m guessing that we are probably a couple of decades away from those late 20th century European horns starting to enter the market en masse, relatively speaking, and creating some interesting buying opportunities.

All of the above being said, yes, the internet changed things drastically insofar that market price was easily found. Even in the mid 90s, one could still stumble into a pawn shop and find something like a nice Conn 88H trombone for $200 that someone pawned off because they simply didn’t know what else to do with it.

Tangent: I wonder how many of those old monster Eb tubas from York, Holton, and Conn were turned into something else? Those were very common, and cheap, in those early days of eBay.

[bloke]

I have to go along with Rick.

In the distant past "high quality" was very much a sought after feature, and "high quality" was always also shiny, but - these days - I hear/see very few discussing quality, and only seem to get excited when something "NEW" (no matter how hastily fabricated) is offered forth, and (of course) everything (regardless of the quality of fabrication - or, beyond that, the acoustical characteristics/practical playability) is now very "shiny".

"Well-made" and "good" are NOT synonyms, and there can even sometimes be
"poorly-made" and (at least, for the time being) "good-playing", but those are also NOT synonyms.

ADDENDUM:
Guitar stores MOST ALL feature wide/full-length mirrors...for a reason.


credit: Guitar World

[tubanh84]

Taking metaphors from real life: When I'm fishing, if there are no fish in the water, I prefer the water to be cloudy rather than clear. As I explain it, it allows me to cast into my optimism.

Perhaps there's that sense of the unknown with the new horns that drives sales - This horn MAY FINALLY BE THE BIT OF MAGIC THAT I NEED. Who knows. We all want THAT HORN that allows us to plug in a mouthpiece, play with a big, rich sound, and never miss a note. None of the existing or older horns has been proven to do that. So people cast into the murky water.

I don't know. "New" has never appealed to me. Except for shoes. Won't buy those used.

[bloke]

Those are good points, as well as being borderline-inspired.

That having been said, if I walk into a Goodwill store - and there’s a $200 pair of Florsheim black dress shoes in my size with a genuine leather soles barely scuffed and priced at $6 (+15% off senior discount), they’re mine.

[WC8KCY]

I can only imagine when, in 50 years from now, those antique Jinbaos start hitting the market!

And history will repeat itself...people today have mostly forgotten about the shoddy build quality that plagued early Yamaha and Jupiter brasswinds, back when they were the "cheap knock-offs".

[bloke]

… last month ?