Oiling up the tuba

[pjv]

Anyone have some good ideas about how efficiently oil the tuba's insides?

I've always done this without thinking much about it, but since Corona I've had, well, some extra time on my hands. Thinking time.

What I've always done, after I've cleaned and dried my horn, oiled the valves and greased the slides, is to maintain this schedule:
-before playing: shot of valve oil in the mouthpipe, piston valves get an individual oiling.
-after playing: another shot in the mouthpipe
-once a week: a shot in every tuning slide

Ok, and as well rotary tubas get thicker oil in the front and back bearings once a week, and the rest of the moving parts once a month.
But specifically this post is about advice pertaining to lining the walls with oil on a regular basis in order to keep the tuba slime and rot free on the inside.

Someone once suggested (after cleaning) putting a few drops of rotary oil in the mouthpipe and letting it sit for a day, THEN afterwards putting valve oil in the mouthpipe. I've never tried this.

[bloke]

.01€/3mil "lamp" oil... (purchased in 2ltr - 4ltr containers)

Pour 30 - 50 mililiters into the mouthpipe and main slide (back towards the valves).

Slosh it all around the entire cylindrical-tubing valveset (working all the valves the entire time) for a good solid minute, drain it all out.
Do this before and after playing. It's possible (??) that your instrument may never need to be "professionally" cleaned inside, other than you "jetting" hot water through the valveset (genuine rubber garden hose with a spray nozzle, main slide removed - also working the all the valves the entire time) - once or twice each year.

I don't guarantee anything, but I never find that I need to "chemically clean" any of my own instruments.

[pjv]

Thanks!

[pjv]

Ps
After you’ve worked in your 2-3 tablespoons of oil, do you also oil your (piston) valves, or is this usually enough?

[bloke]

Slosh it through the entire valveset, and work the valves.

[Doc]

Get a gallon of this:

Lamp Oil.jpg (8.65 KiB) Viewed 2421 times

Put some into this:

bottle.jpg (32.61 KiB) Viewed 2421 times

Squirt some into this thing:

186.jpg (41.73 KiB) Viewed 2421 times

Shake well and drain:

falls.jpg (85.29 KiB) Viewed 2421 times

[KingTuba1241X]

Chris Olka doesn't like Lamp Oil...I've heard. Also remember you are inhaling whatever you lube the horn's insides with, make sure it's non toxic.

[Doc]

Chris Olka doesn't like Lamp Oil...I've heard. Also remember you are inhaling whatever you lube the horn's insides with, make sure it's non toxic.

What type of distillate is commercial valve oil, and beside being $3-4 per ounce instead of 20cents per ounce, how is it significantly different than ultra pure lamp oil?

[bort2.0]

I have to say, in my 20+ years of playing, I've never put any thought into this.

Clean the tuba (or have it cleaned) every so often (yearly, if heavy use) and otherwise just squirt some oil into the small-hole-side of the tuba. Even oiling valves, I'm not that great about. If they feel dry or like they need it, then I'll hit 'em up. But if I pick up the horn and it feels fine, then it's usually fine.

Are used tubas more "broken in"?
Do new tubas need more attention to regular oiling to build up a layer of oil and slickness?

[bloke]

YET ANOTHER ISSUE (beyond [1] lime and [2] schmutz)

[3] THE FORMATION OF PATINA

- New brass instruments are shiny/clean/yellow/oxidation-free on the inside, including bearing/moving-part-contact surfaces.
- Brass tarnishes (patinates).
- Patina does NOT form like a smooth coat of paint, but sort-of "spiky" (yeah..."under-a-microscope-ish")
- Rough-surfaced patina (if a newish instrument is NOT heavily-oiled and NOT often-played) tends to grab, and valves tend to stick.
- Oiling often/generously - then - not only discourages lime build-up, but also serves as a lubricant for constantly (as a newish instrument is played) "lapping in" newly-forming brown patina.
- It's NOT a good idea to continuously dissolve patina from the inside of an instrument, because it serves as an excellent protective coating, WILL eventually stabilize (once completely formed), and continuous removal will eventually define a leaky instrument.
- I know of no shortcut. Any added-abrasive lapping will do the same thing as an acid or chromate/chromate-substitute: remove all the patina

I stick a bunch of instruments into a mild acid solution (to necessarily remove lime).
I avoid doing this to my instruments, and (as I preach VERY REGULAR HEAVY HEAVY OILING) avoid the need to immerse my own instruments into that solution.
The solution is very mild - and I'm very careful, but I prefer that my own brass instruments' interior patinated surfaces remain as they are, rather than starting over.

of note: I spend very little time at all maintaining my own instruments. I try to avoid dropping them, I try to avoid bumping into things, UNpack and REpack my instruments over on one of the backstage mostly-violin tables (rather than on the mostly-trumpets-trombones-and-horns table) and (again) very generously lubricate their interiors with thin/cheap oil.

[KingTuba1241X]

Chris Olka doesn't like Lamp Oil...I've heard. Also remember you are inhaling whatever you lube the horn's insides with, make sure it's non toxic.

What type of distillate is commercial valve oil, and beside being $3-4 per ounce instead of 20cents per ounce, how is it significantly different than ultra pure lamp oil?

I don't have me no pistons anymore..and therefore I oil just the outside of the casing lube points on my rotary tuba so I don't huff the stench. Blue juice and Al Cass I remember used to make me sick.

[bloke]

I'm eventually going to move over to electric tubas, and get away from poisoning myself and the Earth with petroleum products.

(almost edited...but the nearly-added comment was a bit too specifically sarcastic)

[Doc]

I'm eventually going to move over to electric tubas, and get away from poisoning myself and the Earth with petroleum products.

(almost edited...but the nearly-added comment was a bit too specifically sarcastic)

Poppycock and balderdash! How can one be too sarcastic, particularly certain blokes???

[peterbas]

...

[bloke]

It's a nuclear (nuculer) "bum" !!!

[pjv]

KingTua1241X

For the record: I posted this specifically regarding protecting the tuba's insides.

The fact that the very same oil used to protect the tuba (from red rot, etc) also oils up the valves is win=win.

Rotary valved instruments rot just as easily as piston valve instruments. This is why I personally always chucked a shot of oil thru the mouthpipe, and since posting this, now use a lot more.

The usage of lamp oil has been mentioned numerous times on this site and also on the previous site-which-will-not-be-named. Though I personally have 0 background in chemistry, I've taken comfort knowing there are at least a handful of people on this site who do. I can't recall anybody mentioning that lamp oil is more toxic than valve oil. (yeah you shouldn't drink it).

I'm not surprised Blue Juice makes you sick. Fortunately odourless lamp oil doesn't stink.

[Doc]

It's a nuclear (nuculer) "bum" !!!

That’s what you get if you go to Taco Bell.

[KingTuba1241X]

KingTua1241X

For the record: I posted this specifically regarding protecting the tuba's insides.

The fact that the very same oil used to protect the tuba (from red rot, etc) also oils up the valves is win=win.

Rotary valved instruments rot just as easily as piston valve instruments. This is why I personally always chucked a shot of oil thru the mouthpipe, and since posting this, now use a lot more.

The usage of lamp oil has been mentioned numerous times on this site and also on the previous site-which-will-not-be-named. Though I personally have 0 background in chemistry, I've taken comfort knowing there are at least a handful of people on this site who do. I can't recall anybody mentioning that lamp oil is more toxic than valve oil. (yeah you shouldn't drink it).

I'm not surprised Blue Juice makes you sick. Fortunately odourless lamp oil doesn't stink.

Unfortunately, some people with chemical/petroleum allergies or intolerances don't have to 'smell' something for it to make them react to it.

[pjv]

For fun I googled what’s the difference between valve oil and lamp oil and found this old post in the Trumpet Harold
Have fun:

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:54 pm
First no one that sells valve oil manufactures the base stock or petro-distillates themselves they buy existing raw ingredients like liquid paraffin or kerosene or JP8 etc.....You would have to be naive as a 19 year old to think other wise. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to refine crude into base stocks or to manufacture a synthetic from ethylene gas or any other gas for that matter....?

I buy base stocks on the open market and I buy Ornite additive systems from a refinery to blend some of my own products. Even companies like Castrol do not refine their own base stocks they buy on the market from SOPUS,EM and other's. Some bottlers build their own additive packages but most purchase those from large refineries too. Why? Testing the large companies like SOPUS and EM pay the expensive testing fee's for their additive packages. This means you can buy a base stock from anyone and if you use a tested,certified, additive package you can include all those cet's on your label as long as you pay for the right. You get to skip the expensive testing of your product though.

I also think it is naive to think that more then informal testing is done on valve oils. First their is no standards for them to meet. When was the last time any company selling valve oil paid a claim out to anyone for damage caused as a result of unseeing their product? How would you a trumpet player even prove such a case when their is no standard for corrosion, viscosity, shearing, extreme pressure, oxidation resistance????

Keep in mind I have been an Expert Witness I know I hate the term too for General Motor's legal staff.....I never had to show up in court but my reports where often used by the legal staff. They would often call me up and ask me all kinds of questions before heading into a meeting to strike a deal.

Copper is a yellow metal nickel silver and monel are made with copper so anything that is safe for yellow metal is safe for a trumpet.

Ultra Pure lamp oil is refined to the point that it does not produces any smudging or visible black soot when burned in an oil lamp. It is safe to use in homes for lighting and heating. It has been used as a light source long before crude was being refined. UltraPure is more refined then Medallion is which is why people use UltraPure it is better refined. The main difference between jet fuel and kerosene is the filtration. Long before additives where applied to aviation jet fuel filtration and purity was applied.

I would add that none of you has any clue right this minute if their are any impurities in your valve oil because none of you have any clue what is even in it to start with.

Human contact with raw brass is bad for the brass so even your own skin and breath are not good for the brass.

How many mircrons of filtration is needed? I could put valve oil through a Whatmann .2uf filter which exceeds the purity required for water or for injectable medications. .45 microns is generally considered sterile. That would not guarantee much of anything since their could still be chemicals in the end product not good for valves. I could filter acid to that level but the acid would still not be good.

So how is someone going to make an informed decision. Well I can tell you this much. Ultrapure Lamp oil and Kerosene where used before store bought valve oil became the in thing! Lamp oil cut with ATF is safe because ATF is tested against yellow metals. Not wishful thinking but scientific fact. Why? Because they use yellow metals, carbon fiber, plastic, aluminum,stainless steel,iron,paper,ruber and almost everything else including Silver in transmission that use ATF. Same thing can be said for any high end hydraulic fluid. I do not assume anything when it comes to oils let alone valve oils for trumpets.

When was the last time any of you say any scientific testing from any of the big name valve oils you buy?

Ignorance is bliss is not a very true statement and making decisions based on fear not fact is like wise not a good thing. It means you are making a lot of assumptions like the idea that some how "Branded Valve Oils" have some how been tested for wear reduction and safety in a manner that is in line with the scientific method! LOL

The other day I used 3in1 cut with lamp oil. Why? Wanted to change things up for no other reason then that. I am useing 20% 3in1 to 80% UltraPure both purchased from my local Ace Hardware Store.

So 3.2 onces of 3in1 mixed with 12.8 onces of UltraPure will give me 16 onces of valve oil. I paid $4.99 or $5.99 for 32 onces of Ultra Pure and $3.49 for 4 onces of 3in1. I have lamp oil left over to make more should I want to or need too. I can also use the remaining lamp oil to fill my oil lamps which come in handy when the power goes out. The remainder of the 3in1 can be used around the house, on firearms, you name it. So for less then $10 I have 16 ounces of valve oil and plenty of raw ingredients left over. Had I spent that $10 on valve oil I would not have anything left over for other applications and I doubt I would have gotten much better then I what I made.

10%-30% of either the ATF or 3in1 is what I tend to use. I can adjust it for any horns amount of valve wear.

Same thing goes for the lanolin Valvoline home brew slide grease. You could fear that the sky is falling and that it will some how damage your horn but you would be wrong

[bloke]

Over the last few years, I've noticed a tremendous amount of hand-wringing when any product not SOLD as "VALVE OIL" is used to oil valves (whether hand-wringing over one's own physical health, or hand-wringing over damage to instruments", YET (as pointed out) no "VALVE OILS" list their ingredients.

OIL:
- Use it.
- Don't consume it. I could imagine that it would make people sick to do that (put possibly not as sick as Tide Pods or illicit substances and alcohol-containing products that - surely - a hundred million Americans daily ingest/inhale/consume.
- If it stinks, toss it in the trash (or use it for something else - such as in an old sewing machine) and find something else that doesn't stink. SIDEBAR: Three-In-One oil is stinky, so I would be "olfactorily-cautious", if considering adding much of that to lamp oil. Further, (off-brand) 30W oil is considerably cheaper than Three-In-One (and stinks WAY LESS), if some viscosity-increasing additive is desired.

People pay all sorts of prices for all sorts of things, that they regularly purchase. Some people pay tons of money to have their trash picked up every two weeks, YET they still have to "deal" with their trash, pull their carts down to the street, pull their carts back to their back yards, and - via fascistic regulations - must take them down to the street at CERTAIN times on CERTAIN days, and return them back to their back yards at CERTAIN times on CERTAIN days (etc.)
As with my dime/oz. lamp oil for my brass instruments, I have a whole bunch of 50-cent-each 64-gallon trash bags, fill up c. four of them monthly, take those four to the dumpster (just inside the landfill - on the way to town - once/month) and pay $2 to drop them off (so I might possibly be "dealing with" mine no more than anyone else, and paying a total of only $4/month to dispose of it). Again (and by very specific choice)...It's quite possible that I live in the very lowest-cost-of-living (along with very low quantities of all types of crime) counties in the entire nation...but I'm also certainly not encouraging others to come crowd in, here.

...and yeah: Lamp oil (negligible fuming) is formulated to set in small/enclosed places (like houses) and to (even) burn without the smoke bothering people.

bloke "not a doctor, but neither are DMA's"