schmutz report

[bloke]

This is gross, but I think it’s important and needs to be discussed.

That slimy stuff - that forms inside instruments - is not the same as hard lime deposits.

The only explanation that I see for lime deposits is variations from one player to the next - regarding their own chemistry, because I see the same players depositing hard lime in various instruments, with other players depositing none in their instruments.

I don’t have a problem with that in my instruments, thank goodness, but some of my customers do, and obviously random school instruments do - depending on who is playing on them during a particular year.

The slimy stuff is a different matter. The little Holton B-flat tuba - that I built - collects water like no one‘s business, and I have noticed that the slimy stuff is forming inside of it. I believe it is related to the condensation that continues to form when my instrument is still warm and when I’ve set it down after playing it.

The tack that I believe I am going to pursue with this is to use my phone to ring a little reminder 20 minutes later - for me to go back to that instrument again and empty water out it final time. The instrument is outfitted with six or seven water keys, so it’s not going to be any big deal. (unless I’m really tied up, obviously). I’m going to see if that approach reduces the formation of that stuff. My other instruments are all less prone to filling up with condensation while playing them, and none of the rest of them suffer from this issue.

As is known, I feel very strongly (believe) that generously/regularly oiling valve section interiors discourages hard lime build-up, but I'm less convinced that it would/will do any good regarding slimy schmutz.

Yeah… (again) this is gross, but if I can come up with a way to reduce or stop this, I believe other people would be interested.

[Snake Charmer]

This is (at least for me) a very interesting topic!
My Eastman 853 Eb seems to have a built-in soft slime generator. I never had any problems with deposits in instruments for the last 40 years and this did not change with my other horns. But the Eastman has to be flushed out every 6-8 weeks and everytime I do so I find a handful of slush in my shower.
Most of it seems to come from the fourth valve, because it collects in the compensation loop of the first valve (horn is normally stored on the bell).
First I thought it was tuning slide grease from the very loose and perfect aligned lower tuning slides (main and 4th), which were in fact falling out while playing. I used different heavy slide greases in bigger amounts, but at some point I widened up the slides so I can use Meinlschmidt slide oil now. But this brought no change. After every rinsing and cleaning I changed the valve oil brand with some effect. Hetman No2 (which came with the tuba) seems to build up most, even I use Hetman No3 (classic piston) on most of my historic horns without any slime. Meanwhile I change between Al Cass (my long-time favourite), La Tromba Fast and Meinlschmidt No 1 seeing no difference.
Now the next four weeks are over and I can hear the slightly sound of slush again while playing, and yesterday I saw the first greasy traces in the ports of valve 1...

[bloke]

Obviously, I already posted my “essay” (somewhat long post) on this, but just to make it much shorter…
My theory is that going back ten minutes later and emptying out all the water - though probably a difficult habit to form – might reduce or nearly eliminate this problem.

[Matt Good]

The tack that I believe I am going to pursue with this is to use my phone to ring a little reminder 20 minutes later - for me to go back to that instrument again and empty water out it final time.

I do this and then place a few drops of my valve oil recipe down the leadpipe.

-Matt

[LeMark]

I've always been a rotor guy until I started playing Eb tuba, and I've never had slime until then.

I think maybe the way the rotor horns drain right to the leadpipe might prevent that?

that seems to track with what Joe was saying about water collection and condensation

[jtuba]

Thoughts on valve/lamp oil acting as solvents for slide greases and then the grease solids congealing throughout the horn?

Late last year I was using lanolin as a slide grease for a bit, worked fine. I've been using the lamp oil as valve oil every day for a few years now and a few second squeeze down the leadpipe. One day was peeking in my leadpipe and it was quite full of stuff. Blasted an embarrassing amount of filth out of the leadpipe and other slides with my high pressure hot water.

Stopped using the lanolin, been trying other greases. Monster/Herman/Ultra Pure. I now run a snake though the horn when done playing for the day and nothing comes out the pipe. Bought a cheap borescope phone cable off Amazon for periodic inspection and I'm not seeing anything further down the leadpipe anymore. Still getting decent accumulation of stuff in the bottom of first valve and slight less in #2.

I guess I need to find a petroleum based grease/heavy slide oil that won't interact with lamp oil as much.

[bloke]

There definitely is an issue with oil thinning out grease, and then the in-between lubricant migrating to pistons or rotors.
Mostly, I quit using slide grease several years ago, and just apply valve oil to my slides, every so often.

I suspect that some people misdiagnose and wrongly accuse this/that/the-other make of oil (Hetman, as an example, seems to be a favorite whipping boy) of causing their valves to '"gunk up", when - in reality - most any combination of oil and grease (particularly if way too much grease - rather than a extremely thin coating on slides) would bring the same consequences to bear. I would never use Hetman products, but it's only because I prefer to spend pennies - rather than dollars - for lubrication.

Obviously, it's quite clear that I use lamp oil (and rarely bother to add anything, to increase viscosity). Some of my slides - on some of my instruments - might possibly sport a YEARS-old thin application of 30W oil, which - when it tends to become dry - I might thin back out by putting (yup) a little bit of lamp oil on it.

It's quite remarkable how (with brass instruments) - if they are kept oily on the inside (but not wet with water), and they are not banged against things nor dropped - how long they offer trouble-free service...

...YET...

[DonO.]

I tried this on my King 2341. Came back 20 minutes after playing and did the dump. I couldn’t believe how much more water came out! Thanks Bloke!