POLL ADDED !!! - Holton BB-345 twin-spin (first actual picture on p.2)

[Tubajug]

That must be a beast of a case!

[bloke]

'Oh, that wretched tuba!' snapped the violins...

That must be a beast of a case!

Its only about as large as the tuba, vs. modern-day lazily-designed "big blob/several-inches-larger-each-way" cases.

[bloke]

Wade...
If you'll clean up all these surface messes, in exchange - I'll grind on your thumb-ring plate-thingie... I'll even cut you a pretty like slot - to make it slide-able.

bloke "Somehow, I suspect this offer will be rejected."

[the elephant]

Somehow, I suspect this offer will be rejected.

You are correct, sir. HA!

[York-aholic]

Getting there!

Other than the lower placement of the valve cluster, it looks like a scaled up version of your recently completed squat Holton project.

A side by side picture would be interesting.

I’ve often wondered what you did with that case. Very cool (once restored). Color me jealous.

[bloke]

I’ll set them up next to each other.
Besides the size difference, the compact one features a “deeply embedded“ (sunken into the bugle, as far as possible) valveset.
Even were someone interested in trying to do this with a 345, the bugle wrap wouldn’t allow for it.

“twin spin”
I need to move on to our own 345 in our own 184… I’ve got people interested in both of them…

[bloke]

@York-aholic
Here you go...





I understand the allure of a 345 - particularly a more-in-tune and well-put-together one - but I would not trade.

I had the idea of trying out COMET and a TOOTHBRUSH for removing green solder flux splatters.
It worked VERY well, and will have saved me a great deal of time.

[bloke]

A similar comparison:



What’s striking about the Holton is the amount of space it seems like is available for a fifth valve to be nestled between the cluster and the bell.

[bloke]

I was surprised to discover how well thought out the circuit length is for the #1 valve, as well as how it was engineered to be able to nearly double in length.
All the way in, shockingly, low E-flat is in tune absolutely with 1 2 4. Predictably, D works fine with 2 3 4.
The #1 slide is so long that pitches below that are obtainable. That having been said - being (basically) a large sousaphone in the shape of a tuba, all of those pitches work - as well as with any sousaphone - with “privilege tones”.

The only conceivable need for a fifth valve would be the same one that I considered and installed on my own B-flat instrument, which is basically a so-called “sixth valve“ - to overcome the intonation problems encountered with the valve combination 2 4.

[tubaing]

What’s striking about the Holton is the amount of space it seems like is available for a fifth valve to be nestled between the cluster and the bell.

That spot is really nice for carrying the tuba (wrapping hand around the bell)

[York-aholic]

Thank you @bloke and thank you for the Comet idea.

[Tubajug]

Thank you @bloke and thank you for the Comet idea.

I'll second that! I'm always looking for cleanup tips (that's the part I enjoy the least...).

[bloke]

Perhaps another little secret is that some of the really fine sandpaper is about the same grit as tripoli (brown/greasy) buffing compound, and - when places are difficult to polish or to hand rag - sometimes really fine sandpaper can be a substitute.

[tubaing]

Was the 345 really $7,500 back in 1974? I had no idea.

I have an ad (date unknown) that has it priced somewhere around $900 (can’t remember the exact number off the top of my haid)

(In 1979, my brand-new King 1241 was around $1800, including both cases )

This is from a 1965 catalog.
https://saxophone.org/museum/publications/id/362

[tubaing]

1964 Conn

[Yorkboy]

A hundred bucks extra for the 4th valve (340 at $1050 vs 345 at $1150)

My, but times have changed…..

[bloke]

When I was in Kenosha (where they made the Vito clarinets) right at the end of production for the 6/4 Holton instruments, they were quoting 7500 bucks (‘ might have actually been Dave Surber) - while while also telling me that they were ceasing production…but that was in the midst of Carter’s stagflation.

[the elephant]

In an aside regarding your mention of the Vito brand, Vito Pascucci was the traveling Instrument Repair NCOIC for the Glenn Miller USAAF band that today is the Airmen of Note.

[the elephant]

For the best metal cleaner of green flux snot and general calcification and gunk, Barkeepers Friend wins in my book. However, as with Comet or Ajax, you have to wash with a heavy concentration of Dawn to get it out of the pores of the metal. Otherwise, it is difficult to get tin/lead solder to flow. BKF is *particularly* bad about this. Comet, not so much, but it does leave a residue that only a good soap-and-water washing will fully remove prior to soldering. In my experience, liquid flux does not fully remove it, so the solder does not flow well. And BKF and vinegar combine to work like muriatic and chromic acid, just taking longer. I don't feel bad pouring either down my drain or into my grass out back.

Note that BKF needs to be sort of hand-rubbed into the metal to take off all the crap. You need to wear rubber (or nitrile) gloves or the stuff will destroy your skin. My experience is that keeping a tub of white vinegar next to the sink and going between the two works the best, and no toxic fumes seem to develop when the two come into contact with one another. Or maybe this is why I have become progressively more stupid over the years?

Anyway, seriously, give the stuff a try, just understand that it must be washed off very thoroughly afterward if you clean loose parts that have to be soldered back together. Also, using this very common household cleaner *might* damage the solder, so I only use it when I can wash it off right after I use it. I have had no experience with joints starting to leak or cracking or the like, but it seems to be hard on lead, and I really don't know. For the price, though, it is effective enough to be worthy of some experimentation.

[bloke]

Thank you for the tips!
I will pick up some barkeepers friend.

When in the midst of sticking a “whole nine yards” instrument together, I just tend to smear Dawn around areas where I soldered, and the green stuff tends to sit on top of the Dawn, rather than sticking to the metal. I just used (“tried”) the Comet after I was completely through soldering everything…just before polishing all of the excess solder off of the joints and either calling (this particular) instrument “completed/unlacquered“ or before a jewelry finish.
The owner of this thing is way up on the eastern side of Lake Michigan… They want to come today and use the Monday holiday to get home. I told them they could come on, but that there is some snow on some highways around here. I have no idea what they will decide to do. Today is the day where I’m cleaning all the joints and surfaces up for an “unlacquered - and not particularly shiny” finish.
As to the Comet, it seemed to come off fairly easily with a hose nozzle - hooked up to a rubber hose jetting out straight hot water…and then I wiped it off with a washcloth followed up with a dry washcloth. (Insert shoulder-shrug emoji here.)