Is everyone through…

Tubas, euphoniums, mouthpieces, and anything music-related.
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MN_TimTuba
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Re: Is everyone through…

Post by MN_TimTuba »

Rick Denney wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:28 pm The trick to measuring tuba weight on a bathroom scale is to weigh yourself, and then weigh yourself again while holding the tuba. The difference is the tuba weight. Those will keep the bathroom scale in a useful range for accuracy.

Rick “whose strain-gauge bathroom scale is pretty accurate” Denney
Yeah, that's how I did it.
It's also how I weigh our dogs, but when Hilda got to be 130+ the electronic bathroom scale just kept reading "ERROR", as our combined weight was...well, too much.
Tim


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Rick Denney
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Re: Is everyone through…

Post by Rick Denney »

MN_TimTuba wrote:
Rick Denney wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:28 pm The trick to measuring tuba weight on a bathroom scale is to weigh yourself, and then weigh yourself again while holding the tuba. The difference is the tuba weight. Those will keep the bathroom scale in a useful range for accuracy.

Rick “whose strain-gauge bathroom scale is pretty accurate” Denney
Yeah, that's how I did it.
It's also how I weigh our dogs, but when Hilda got to be 130+ the electronic bathroom scale just kept reading "ERROR", as our combined weight was...well, too much.
Tim
Yeah, if the combined weight of a tuba and player is too much for the scale, one knows what needs to be done, and getting a lighter tuba ain’t it.

Rick “pushed that limit a time or two over the decades, but no longer” Denney
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Re: Is everyone through…

Post by Rick Denney »

The Air Force Ceremonial Band (that part that plays sousaphones at Arlington National Cemetery) has fiberglass sousaphones that were painted (at an automotive paint shop) metallic silver. They look great, especially with dress blues—like satin silver. I’d take that any day over gold.

Bloke, didn’t you have a black sousaphone with multicolored sparklies in it at one time?

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Re: Is everyone through…

Post by BramJ »

Some more data:

Besson 994GS: 12kg / 26.45 lbs
Cerveny 1660 (Arion): 8.6kg / 18.95 lbs

And my Conn 36K sousa is bright yellow :red:
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Re: Is everyone through…

Post by bloke »

My point is that metallic gold and silver and brass and bronze colors have been vastly improved over the last five or six decades.
Black is the base color on my sousaphone, but it’s there so that the sparkle rainbow colors are noticed/emphasized. That instrument is mostly used at outdoor NOLA brass band type of gigs, and is not collectible…
… and you know all of these things, but just don’t like the idea of restoring your instrument to metallic brass, even though the modern versions of these paints are amazing.
Of course, it’s your instrument.
If someone can degrade a European-made kaiser baritone down to three valves - simply to rob one of the valves off of it to stick on an American euphonium (rather than just buying those same parts from the same manufacturer in Europe for a couple hundred bucks) then you can certainly paint your tuba black. 😎
All of this rhetoric aside, you should be interpreting the quantity of it as me just expressing how cool it must be (in my view) to own one of those things.
Rick Denney wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:45 am The Air Force Ceremonial Band (that part that plays sousaphones at Arlington National Cemetery) has fiberglass sousaphones that were painted (at an automotive paint shop) metallic silver. They look great, especially with dress blues—like satin silver. I’d take that any day over gold.

Bloke, didn’t you have a black sousaphone with multicolored sparklies in it at one time?

Rick “may be misremembering” Denney
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Re: Is everyone through…

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bloke wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:29 am...
If someone can degrade a European-made kaiser baritone down to three valves - simply to rob one of the valves off of it to stick on an American euphonium (rather than just buying those same parts from the same manufacturer in Europe for a couple hundred bucks) then you can certainly paint your tuba black. 😎...
Yeah, like that's a fair comparison. :eyes:

The more I recall those AF sousaphones, the better I like the silver.

Collectible? They are collectible in playing condition, like just about all tubas.

Cut to a future episode of Antiques Road Show...

[Subject matter expert, standing next to a podium on which this tuba is being displayed]: Can you tell me how you tell me how you came by this instrument?

[Me]: Yes, I ran across it sitting at a tuba exhibit in Washington, DC many years ago. Another fellow and I discussed it, but agreed that the tuning of this instrument was challenged and it was in poor condition. We both left it alone until the end of the show. When nobody else had expressed the slightest interest in it, I approached the seller, an expert from Baltimore, and we made an "end-of-show" deal. The other fellow who was looking at it has never quite forgiven me for that. [laughter.] An expert from New Jersey told me the story of WWII hero and well-known tuba player in the Navy Band, Mr. Leonard Jung, for whom he had found and set up this instrument to use in retired-military bands in the Washington area in his later years when he had become unable to carry a brass tuba. This provenance was confirmed by the seller. Sadly, I never met Mr. Jung, who passed away in 2016...

[SME]: What a great story! Do you remember how much you paid?

[Me]: Yes, $500.

[SME]: Well what you have here is a Martin TB-31, made in the early to mid-1960's. It is pitched in B-flat. This particular model was sold to schools because of its ability to resist the denting that brass tubas usually suffer from at the hands of band students. It was also aimed at young players who might struggle to handle a full-sized brass instrument until they were older. With only three valves, they are limited in the low range and some notes are challenging to play in tune, so they are not considered ideal for adult amateurs or professionals, unless they had a special need like the former owner of this instrument. These were priced at $750--half the price of Martin's full-sized, four-valve instruments. Have you had the instrument appraised?

[Me]: No, but some bloke in Memphis tells me it's quite collectible.

[SME]: Well the market for interesting vintage tubas has gone soft in recent years with the passing of the generation of players who grew up with these instruments. But this really is special. In absolutely original condition, this instrument would be worth $15,000. In the condition you found it, held together by radiator hose clamps and electrical tape, with a wooden stick used to help the performer address those tuning issues, it would be considered a barn find and would still be worth $10,000. Too bad someone restored it to playable condition and repainted it silver. While it looks good, collectors insist that such instruments remain completely original. In its present restored condition, it's worth...

...$500.

[Me]: Thank you! I'd never sell it because it means so much to me...(walks away crushed)

(Bloke, you know I'm just poking you in the ribs, right?)

Rick " :tuba: " Denney
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Re: Is everyone through…

Post by bloke »

It’s fair, because both operations decrease the likelihood that someone else would be interested in owning that thing.

Let me know when you’re ready to sell it for $500.

You were in a room full of boys who were myopically looking for shiny Chinese stuff.

“Collectible” and “highly monetarily valuable” are not synonyms. There’s a huge page on Facebook of Martin tuba nerds. I don’t post there, because most of them believe mystical and magical things about those instruments, and it’s just not productive to question any of those beliefs, but I also have to believe that their enthusiasm can also coax the extraction of their pocketbooks.

If metallic silver, perhaps you might consider stripping the old lacquer off the valveset, and having it nickel (or stainless nickel) plated…(??)
Nickel finishes don’t even require a “jewelry buff” shininess, as far as preparation is concerned.
I could see such a combination as offering fairly broad appeal, were it that you or your spouse were interested in liquidating it.
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Re: Is everyone through…

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bloke wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:37 am ...
You were in a room full of boys who were myopically looking for shiny Chinese stuff.

“Collectible” and “highly monetarily valuable” are not synonyms. There’s a huge page on Facebook of Martin tuba nerds. I don’t post there, because most of them believe mystical and magical things about those instruments, and it’s just not productive to question any of those beliefs, but I also have to believe that their enthusiasm can also coax the extraction of their pocketbooks.

If metallic silver, perhaps you might consider stripping the old lacquer off the valveset, and having it nickel (or stainless nickel) plated…(??)
Nickel finishes don’t even require a “jewelry buff” shininess, as far as preparation is concerned.
I could see such a combination as offering fairly broad appeal, were it that you or your spouse were interested in liquidating it.
This was before the invasion of shiny Chinese stuff.

Yes, the brass of the valve body would give a two-tone effect with a silver both that might not be universally admired.

I had no idea that there are Martin buffs like that, but then I hardly do any FB at all.

I shall be respectful of the instrument.

Rick "no, it's not for sale, but if it was, I'd be honor-bound to give Art Hovey first crack at it" Denney
Last edited by Rick Denney on Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is everyone through…

Post by bloke »

Many of them are freaks about the 6/4 models, and – admittedly – those things - as strange as their bore tapers are (is) play darn-well in tune… yet others of them just love Martin-anything.
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Doc (Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:45 pm)
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Re: Is everyone through…

Post by DonO. »

I did the bathroom scale thing as suggested. My King 2341 weighs in at 21.4 pounds, without mouthpiece.
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Re: Is everyone through…

Post by pjv »

Sorry but….about the Martin again.

My 40’s Martin”Medium” (as I’ve heard it called) sousaphone plays beautifully and VERY well in tune. (It’s “sister” is in the Simonetti collection and is only a couple of serial numbers removed from mine). My horns valves are VERY tight (restored I’d think) to the point that if I pull on any slide it gets ferociously sucked back in (which also says something about the quality work done on the slides getting them lined up and smooth).

So “if” the insides of your medium tuba are at all comparable to my sous (big if) it could very well be a worthy restoration project. The neglected condition of your tuba is quite possibly the cause of many tuning problems, but I’m sure you’ve come to this conclusion yourself.

By the way, I can’t tell from the picture, but even though the Martin and the Eastman share what looks like a similar bell flare, isn’t the bottom bow of the Martin larger?
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Re: Is everyone through…

Post by Schlitzz »

Well, if you're married, a 26 pound tuba is the least of your problems. Sure, I've got a 65 pound shepherd. Life is good, life is about choices. A viola player has married a tuba player before. The weight of the horn makes no difference, because the tuba player is hauling in principal pay. No attention is paid to that spiffy dressing soprano sax player, when there's a lonely tuba player, and hard cash on the table.
bloke wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:25 pm
Further, if you’re older and have sore joints (etc.) - and start talking about a “smaller tuba“, UNLESS your new/replacement tuba only has three valves, it’s probably going to be within two or three pounds of as heavy as the one that you own now. If you get rid of a very large four piston valve instrument and replace it with a medium large five rotary valve instrument, your replacement could easily end up weighing more.
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Re: Is everyone through…

Post by bloke »

Sidebar:
I’ve always noticed how well-made Martin pistons were, and – during the greatest era of instrument manufacturing – how most of the other manufacturers piston and casing construction (perhaps, with the exception of Holton) were superior to Conn (and sorry to trigger any vintage Conn or Holton owners).
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