trolling tubaforum re: old handmade/sheet metal Miraphone model 86 tubas with 420mm bell diameter

[bloke]

When I see old Miraphone (Mirafone) model 86 C tubas for sale, I'm noticing that most of the 4-valve ones aren't as ragged out as the 5-valve ones.

Since most people

(other than argumentative sticks-in-the-mud, who argue for the "old length" 5th valve circuit - EVEN THOUGH they have absolutely NO PLANS to buy a Miraphone tuba with EITHER length of 5th circuit)

prefer the "GG whole step" 5th valve circuit length,

(particularly as long as the mouthpipe tube is of the 1970's-and-beyond style, which features a couple of inches of straight pipe before the #1 rotor)

might it be a better strategy to look at the old sheet metal 420mm bell diameter FOUR-VALVE versions of the model 86 C, and then add one's own preferred 5th rotor config', along with (most likely) a right-hand thumb lever...

...ie. RATHER THAN paying more for a (more rare) 5-valve vintage model 86 C, and (most likely) STILL having to convert it to suit one's own preferences...??

Now that the new thickwall/hydraulically-formed 450mm bell diameter ones are over ten grand, doesn't that offer a bit of leeway to purchase a darn-good-condition older 4-valve smaller-bell-diameter HANDMADE one, one's choice of 5th valve parts, and labor to install those parts (plus some dent removal, tightening up, and general clean-up)?

Again (as the point I attempted to make - above - may have been lost in all my trolling rhetoric)...

SO MANY OF THE OLD >> 4-VALVE << HANDMADE 420mm-BELL MODEL 86 TUBAS SEEM TO NOT BE SO "RODE HARD AND PUT AWAY WET".

As a postscript, a FEW people might actually PREFER a FOUR-valve version, and to teach themselves the "pull the #4 slide" (which is purposefully LONG and ACCESSIBLE on the C-version) system.

[the elephant]

Agreed 100%.

These are excellent tubas in most cases. They are *almost* consistent enough to buy without a playtest. You still need to test them though, as there are a lot of browsers out there. Some had weird intonation from the factory, but many have had rotten "repair" work done to them over their lives. (In most cases, sloppy repair work can be cleaned up.) By and large, though, "Miraphone Pitch" is a known set of issues that are usually easy to work around and are remarkably consistent when compared to some of the laughable $10,000 tubas there are out there.

Same-era, similar condition CC 186s with four valves seem to go for about half the price of what many 5-valved ones net. I see lots of -4Us go for around $2500 to $3000 while the -5Us seem to go for $5000 to $6000 — sometimes much more than that if it is still "pretty". A very "pretty" -4U will frequently still have a very low price.

Figure it out, boys and girls. There are bargains to be had if you will just take off those blinders…

[iiipopes]

No, you can't have my smaller taper lead pipe that goes with many of these tubas without buying the entire tuba from me to go with it.

[Casca Grossa]

Since most people

(other than argumentative sticks-in-the-mud, who argue for the "old length" 5th valve circuit - EVEN THOUGH they have absolutely NO PLANS to buy a Miraphone tuba with EITHER length of 5th circuit)

I like being the stick in the mud so much, I now have two Miraphones with the old length 5th valve circuit.