Martin Eb

[Tubajug]

That valveset looks almost identical to the one on my Martin helicon. My helicon plays pretty darn well for only being 3 valves, and it's a "Medium" like yours. Nice find!

(And 1-3 is a low Bb, and 1-2-3 is a low A)

I really like playing Eb and those medium bore ones seem to play quite nice. Enjoy it!

[bort2.0]

Just got home from orchestra rehearsal... Brahms 2 and Nabucco. Small group, about 30... Some.missing, so max is about 40.

First time in orchestra since 2014, holy crap!

Look, an old, smaller 3v Eb is nobody's first choice for much, especially not orchestra. But it was 1) enough sound, 2) easily heard, and 3) really not too bad! I think anything above a comfortable forte was interesting, and the louder you push the more the intonation starts to deviate. I'm also using a bigger mouthpiece, so maybe that makes the intonation different too.

Most of the bad notes I played were for Eb fingering things (thanks for the 13 and 123 info, there!). Nothing was hard to play, and no notes were more than I could deal with by just, well, playing them in tune. Lots of low A's, and they were nice. The chorale in Nabucco sounded nice for sight reading some WTF fingerings.

Not something I want to use long term in an orchestra, but a fun little horn that would be fine for smaller stuff.

Does have me thinking that a large bass tuba would be a nice match for a group like this (with the Rudy as backup for the bigger or more awkward stuff).

Got some thinking to do about larger F tubas...

[York-aholic]

Just got home from orchestra rehearsal...

Does have me thinking that a large bass tuba would be a nice match for a group like this (with the Rudy as backup for the bigger or more awkward stuff).

You should look into trying out a Besson 983.

[bort2.0]

Just got home from orchestra rehearsal...

Does have me thinking that a large bass tuba would be a nice match for a group like this (with the Rudy as backup for the bigger or more awkward stuff).

You should look into trying out a Besson 983.

But actually, I did really like that tuba, and also didn't really "fit" with it. I have no regrets for selling it.

I guess a different FA large Eb would be worth a try, like the Meinl Weston 2141 or some kind of Willson (but not the rotary one at Dillon). Not interested in top action. Limited options, I know... But a little concerned that the Rudy will be WAY too much for the group (I can hold back, but constantly... Might be annoying).

[bloke]

If you really like WTF fingerings, just go ahead and buy one of the so-called “larger F tubas”.
Most of their intonation characteristics remind me very much of typical 1920s -1930s “monster” E-flat intonation.

Oddly, some of them - physically - aren’t really all that large.

[cjk]

Not interested in top action....

I was a front action snob too until I played with several 3+1 E flats.

[bort2.0]

I finally got around to checking the valve alignment...

Oddly, each valve was done the same:

Two felts under each finger button
Two corks and one felt under the valve cap

And they were all pretty far off, by the same amount. Why?!

To align the valves and get them really close, they only needed one felt under the finger button and one cork under the valve cap. That got all 3 valves really close.

That's not much cushion, and it's old cork anyway... So the valves are a little noisy.

But, the horn plays a little better now. Not a tremendous difference, but everything is more secure, especially in the low range, which is surprisingly full.

I mean, this tuba still is what it is, and it's nobody's first choice for anything... But it's nice when things work up to their full potential, and I think this is approaching that.

I still need to finish polishing it, and eventually get it to the shop and properly serviced... But for now, it's exceeded the "good enough" standard that I had for it. A neat little tuba that, of all things, I may end up holding onto for a good while.

[Tubajug]

My limited experience tells me that these old medium sized Eb's play pretty darn well. My Martin helicon is a medium, with a 17" bell, just like yours and it plays very well.

My King Eb is also a medium-sized one, and it played so well I converted it to a 4P+1 instrument and I use it a lot.

If you want to delve into the world of frankentubas, you might have a good candidate right there for converting... oh, and you should sell me the valveset so I can add a fourth valve to my helicon.

[bort2.0]

Well, I had a moment last night, as I was finishing polishing the rest of the tuba...

"Ugh, why can't I get the whole bell to get as shiny as the inside and around the engraving?!"

Satin silver

Also

Satin silver

A few of the remaining spots that were rough to remove were on the satin parts... Is there a trick for polishing/detarnishing satin finishes?

[ronr]

By the way I’ve been sending the seller regular updates on what you’ve been doing with the horn. She particularly liked the before and after polish pictures!

[York-aholic]

A few of the remaining spots that were rough to remove were on the satin parts... Is there a trick for detarnishing satin finishes?

A belt sander with 40 grit paper?

Your package will go to the Post Office tomorrow, by the way.

[bort2.0]

A few of the remaining spots that were rough to remove were on the satin parts... Is there a trick for detarnishing satin finishes?

A belt sander with 40 grit paper?

Your package will go to the Post Office tomorrow, by the way.

Thank you!

Regarding the finish, this is the first satin finish tuba I've had. It's also the first silver tuba I've had that turns my hands black... Maybe that's just a coincidence? But I think that might just be a washing issue (need to rinse the leftover polish residue...?)

The more I play this horn, the more I like it... And I liked it very much from Day 1. Small bore and 3 valves has its limits... but I love the sound -- it is clear, projects well, and is plenty of volume. I just need to devote more face time with the tuba to learn Eb fingerings and gain more automaticity.

That said, in my orchestra (I just started, it was my 2nd rehearsal with the group), we had a brass sectional last week, and there was zero trouble keeping up or putting out enough sound. When my Rudy is ready, I'm sure I'll start to feel differently... But starting with this "medium" tuba (and I think that "medium" is VERY accurate as a size description), it has really opened my eyes to the idea of what I actually NEED vs what I think I need vs what I want.

Of all the horns I've owned, this one is one of the most fun, and seems one of the least likely to be sold.

[bort2.0]

By the way I’ve been sending the seller regular updates on what you’ve been doing with the horn. She particularly liked the before and after polish pictures!

Hey Ron, that's really cool! I have done a bit more polishing since those last photos, but think I'm about done for now. Next, I'll get a matching set of valve caps... And when possible, I'll take it in the shop to have it cleaned, serviced, properly aligned, etc...

I have to say, I was really impressed by the tuba from the beginning. Although it showed it's age when I bought it, it also showed it's age very well. All of the slides were greased and maintained. So we're the valve caps, etc... So even though things appeared to be "stuck", they were really "preserved" in a certain state by the previous owner. It takes forever for proper slide grease to seize up, and this horn had obviously been cared for and maintained over the years. It's 90+ years old, for goodness sake... And everything works just fine, and was some silver polish away from a gleaming finish.

I won't pretend like a 3 valve Eb is the best tuba ever... But it is a very pretty tuba, which plays well, sounds great, and has a lot of life left in it. I hope to use it regularly ... Likely in it's existing form, but perhaps with an added 4th valve... Or an entirely new valve section... I don't know. But it is a highly useful tuba, an I'm so glad this worked out. I don't know how important this horn was to the previous owner, but I feel a duty to do right by this tuba, and let it continue to sing it's song. It's got a LOT left to give.

[YorkNumber3.0]

.

[bort2.0]

Yesterday was my 4th orchestra rehearsal with this tuba, this time in a much larger space. Here are some updated thoughts about it:

Good:

• The sound! Not huge, not small, but solidly "medium". Clear and full, with plenty of projection. No trouble there.

• It's pretty. It's lightweight. It's easy and comfortable to hold.

• I just got a small shank Denis Wick mouthpiece, which is definitely the right size shank for this horn. That resolved a few things (better security and response on some notes), and I like the mouthpiece a lot. It reinforces just how easy this tuba is to play.

• Eb fingerings are much more natural now. I still get tripped up by things like B natural, but I'm getting there. As I've always said, the advantage of being a musician these days is that with a billion recordings out there you know what it's supposed to sound like!

• After aligning the valves, as expected, response is better and more consistent across the different valve combinations. When I get it in the shop for an actual cleaning and alignment, it'll be quieter and maybe a little better.

• After cleaning the valves, they move very easily, and with a good amount of compression. Needs new felts so they are quieter.

• Thanks to @York-aholic, I now have a set of matching finger buttons.

Bad:

• Clearly, there are limitations with 3 valves. For the pieces on this concert, it's a non-issue.

• Clearly, limitations of small bore... which seems mostly to affect top-end potential. When I play at FF (as loud as I can reasonably play and not sound like a turd), I think it's probably more of a decent forte.

• ^That said, for the size of the group, volume isn't an issue, and I've gotten "the hand." I do think that equal volume with more weight/presence will be a welcome improvement though (as in, when my Rudy is ready).

• Low pitch -- all slides are basically all the way pushed in. Notes are a bit malleable, so playing in tune isn't very difficult, but it's not an ideal situation. What can be done about this?

• There is a split in the top bow, which I hadn't previously noticed. I'll have to get that silver soldered (?) closed. I filled it with water to see if it would leak, and didn't detect any leakage. Maybe that's a bogus way to test that, but if there's a hole, at least it's not THAT big to leak water. Either way, something to get fixed. I'm sure the spit valve probably needs to be re-sealed as well, but no obvious leak from there either.

• Not "bad", but I did try to install my Sellmansberger finger buttons. They fit and they look cool. But the geometry of the top valve cap doesn't allow for them to be used (i.e., the nub at the top of the valve cap doesn't allow for the valve to be pushed down far enough.)

Future ideas:
As you can tell, I REALLY like this little tuba, and of all things I've owned recently, this one has absolutely passed the 1-month ownership test. I have a few questions/ideas about what to do in the future, in order of increasing cost/complexity and decreasing bort-likelihood. I have $350 in this tuba right now, and I'm sure that my overall minimal investment is contributing to my overall joy with this tuba. But I don't mind spending some $ to enhance it and get it to the next level. Here are some options I'm debating.

• Option 1 -- make the minimal necessary repairs to get the full potential out of the tuba in its existing form. The tuba was designed and built to be THIS, and it's done THAT for almost 100 years. It's got a lot of life left in it.

• Option 2 -- same as Option 1, but doing tuba surgery to raise the pitch. Seems kind of necessary, but it's got to look CLEAN.

• Option 3 -- Option 2, plus adding a 4th valve. That would be NICE to have, but would have to look SUPER clean for me to be happy with it, TBH.

• Option 4 -- replace the entire valve section with a new (or at least different) 4-piston valve set with a larger bore. Keeps the same overall tuba shape/size and uses that gorgeous bell. But it's a few thousand dollars to do this, and at that point, why not just buy a different tuba like this that already exists.

[Tubajug]

I've mentioned my own King medium several times, but I liked it so much even as a three-valve horn, I determined it worth the effort of converting it to a 5 valve. I upped the bore from 0.610 to 0.656. I also did most of the work myself, so that certainly saves money, but I love the result. I use it for almost everything, which is all small group stuff right now.

So, my vote would be for option 4 (and also as mentioned before, you give me a chance to buy your valveset from you )

[TubātōTubŏtō]

I've mentioned my own King medium several times,

That sounds awesome! Do you have pictures of that end product? And are you a person who's open to people trying your horns, geography permitting?

[Tubajug]

I've mentioned my own King medium several times,

That sounds awesome! Do you have pictures of that end product? And are you a person who's open to people trying your horns, geography permitting?

I'm fine with people trying it, but most people don't pass through Lincoln, NE.

[York-aholic]

I think I have a Martin Eb sousaphone set here if you need an extra valve...

Oh, and I’m pretty sure that the main difference between low and high pitched horns was in the smaller (inner) bottom bow. There are one of each on the tuba exchange museum website so you can compare pictures.

Perhaps contact Paul Scott about raising a low pitch horn up. I seem to remember he was about to get that done.

[bort2.0]

Week 6? 7? at rehearsal with the Martin Eb last night. Fingerings are all there for these pieces. Notes are 90% there, but the 123 E naturals (obviously) aren't the best notes. They are also way easier than I remember 123 B natural being on a 3-valve BBb tuba.

On Eb tuba, I feel like an actor playing a part that requires an accent or different language. I'm convincing, but not native or fluent.

Particularly fun was the chorale of Nabucco Overture. Chorales are always fun, but the sound and blend were quite nice.

Originally, I was worried about not being loud enough. 3rd conductor in 3 weeks (subs, since Yuri is back to Ukraine...), all of whom want different tempos, amounts of sound, styles, etc. Last night's conductor wanted less brass, generally. I got the hand early on (a "more tuba") moment in a previous week and was told "don't worry, there is enough sound. "

All of which leads me to question what my long term plans are. The Rudy 5/4, which I got to use for band playing (orchestra was never on the radar at the time of purchase), is certain to be too much for this group, or at least would require great control to finesse it for a <50 piece orchestra.

Given my own busy life, I'm not sure that playing in band and orchestra at the same time is gonna happen anytime soon, as reasonable and normal as it sounds. Given the option, I'd choose orchestra all day.

But I'm also questioning if the Martin Eb is working well for me only right now, with this rep list.

I don't want to be the clod who brings a 6/4 tuba and tramples everything. But I also don't want to be the clod who picked up a $350 tuba on his way to rehearsal and uses that because it's what he has.

Well, actually, I love the story of being clod #2, but at some point, I do know the limitations of the little Eb are gonna get me. Maybe even the next cycle of Broadway/pops tunes.

So, I dunno. I guess I'm realizing that I now have a case for two tubas. I'm not particularly interested in selling the Rudy. But I may need a larger smaller tuba for orchestra.

But to summarize, the Martin has exceeded every expectation for me.