Slides? Over or Under...

[matt g]

Having just posted my ugly mug with my tubas, I had a question that might be somewhat interesting.

On both of my tubas, I can reach through the horn and access the first, third, and forth valve slide without issue. I’m also tall enough (or at least with simian-like arms) that I can reach over the top bow. I prefer to reach over, specifically because the Conn/King has such well aligned slides, that it’s easier to hold the first slide out a nudge to its “neutral” position and adjust from there. On the 2165 and the C/K, it’s easier to pull fourth from the top. I see a lot of the York clone players still coming over the top to pull 4. I think the wrap is tighter on the York and gets in the way though.

Just wondering about those of you that have the option what your preference might be.

[djwpe]

Miraphone Hagen 496, I go through rather than over. But that horn has a very high top bow.

[Doc]

It depends on the design of the instrument.

Miraphone Hagen 496, I go through rather than over. But that horn has a very high top bow.

Same. But, thankfully, slide pulling on the 5v 496 I have is almost not a thing at all. A long pull on 4th for pedal C, a very short pull on 4th for C below the staff and pedal Eb, and a very short push on 3rd for Gb at the bottom of the staff. These slides must be accessed from behind/through the instrument. I don't have to work the 1st slide, but if I did, it would be from behind. It's impossible from over the top. The 5th would be adjusted best from the top, but I can set it and forget it.

On the 186, it's all top access. Easy peasy.

I don't move slides on the Symphonie. If I did, all but the 5th valve would be from behind/through.

[cjk]

When I had a 2165, it was over the top. I recall I needed to go over the top to pull the fourth, so why go through the horn to get to 1, then over to get to 4?

I'm only 5 foot 8 (not tall) so I would expect that most folks would be able to do this.

I could maybe see how reaching through the tuba might make the tuba overall easier to hold.

[the elephant]

On my rotary horns in the past, the top bow was seemingly set up with the slides to use as a wrist rest; the slide crooks were all above the top bow.

On my 2265 and Mike's 2165 I reach through, but I never had to move 4th on those horns while playing. (I set the slide to be in tune with 24 and do not move it.)

On my Holton 345 I prefer to reach through. Since I am building it myself, all three of those slides are set up to be easily used through the top bow.

My Kurath F tuba has a 1st slide that is perfect for movement through the top bow, but there is no good place for your left wrist. I a tall and have long arms, so I reach over, though this causes me lower back pain on long gigs. I will be rerouting the 4th slide because both of them point down, which SUCKS. I plan to set it up like his 3400 Eb tuba, and I will install some sort of wrist rest when I do that. I have seen photos of my playing this tuba and I look ridiculous with my arm up that high, dangling over, and it is pretty obsious why my back hurts, too. So that will become a through-the-top-bow horn.

My Yamaha YFB-621 that I played for 13 years was an ergonomic nightmare. That tuba had zero redeeming qualities in that regard. I made a lot of small tweaks over the years until, when I sold it, the thing was much less uncomfortable to hold and play for hours at a time. It was a through-the-side freakazoid tuba, with the 1st slide, with 4th midway down the backside and 3rd being fairly acessible with the left hand on the side of the top bow. I never once, in 13 years, came home from a gig on that tuba without knots in the middle right side of my back.

I greatly prefer reaching through the top bow on a horn like you describe, though over the bow works too, if the slides are easier to reach that way.

[bort2.0]

Every time I reach through a tuba to pull a slide, I get this weird feeling like I'm going to break my wrist or something. So usually, I just don't pull slides at all. Hopefully people think I'm playing in tune...or, they're just too nice to say anything.

On a Miraphone 188 (still my favorite overall design), it's all just my lazy arm slumping over the top of that short top bow. So easy to access, but so unnecessary.

I remember in college, I was using a PT-3, and would come over the top to pull slides. The director (also a tuba player) would routinely call me out on it, and tell me how contorting my body and my arm like that is negatively affecting my posture, restricting my airflow, blah blah blah. Maybe that's part of why I stopped going over the top, too.

Then again, there's Oystein Baadsvik and his enormously long arm hanging over the top. The first time I saw that, I wasn't even sure it was a real arm!

[LeMark]

Came in handy when he broke some fingers and had to use his left hand to play

I'm 6 foot 8 with really really long arms, I go over the top.

[matt g]

On the 188 and MW32 there was zero space to get my ham hands through.

@the elephant, when I had my YFB-621, pulling 1 and 3 felt like some sort of twisted finger pinball action. Unfortunately, that tuba needed lots of attention to those slides (although the response, low register, and projection was solid).

[djwpe]

Then again, there's Oystein Baadsvik and his enormously long arm hanging over the top. The first time I saw that, I wasn't even sure it was a real arm!

I’ve seen Oystein live 3 or 4 times, and I don’t recall seeing him pull a slide. His left arm wraps all the way around and he grabs the paddle hinge bar for some reason.

[jtm]

There's no getting your hand through this one, but first is easy to reach over the low top bow. Third is easy to see, but not very easy to reach from either direction. Fourth is in back, and a little awkward to reach while actually holding on to the horn.

[Rick Denney]

For the Hirsbrunner and Holton I go through. When I had my Miraphone, I went over. I went through on the York Master, but on that instrument the space was tight and it took a while for me to find the hand position that worked. The slide was very well aligned and fast, so the two fingers I could put on it were plenty.

The Eastman doesn't need it; or, more accurately, the slide I'd want to push in is alreay all the way in--I'm waiting a year or so until I really learn the instrument before deciding what, if anything, I might do about it. It's so easy to steer its really a non-issue. As I have played it, I've already been easing the main slide out by an inch or so.

The B&S doesn't need it, and 5 and 6 are on the left hand anyway. The Yamaha 621 F could use it, but I correct in other ways--there is simply no way with that instrument to manipulate slides while playing. It's funny--I've never had the ergonomic issues with that horn that most complain about, but for me it is a standing tuba rather than a sitting tuba, and I have a harness for it that I made.

Only the Hirsbrunner was correctly designed for slide manipulation. It has socks on the inner tubes and a spring-loaded centering device from the factory. Only one finger is needed, though I wish they had also vented the first valve casing. I'll drill holes in Miraphone casings without a care, but boring a hole in a Hirsbrunner valve case requires thought. I've been thinking about it for five years now. The Holton was a mess until Bloke straightened the slides and shortened the first valve. Most Holtons are a mess until somebody who knows how straightens them out.

Rick "who prefers not to reach over unless the top bow is really low" Denney

[bloke]

As Rick states, it is best when it is not required.

My 5450 fifth partial is just flat enough that I would like for it to be higher, and not to feel compelled to use six partial alternates.
I’ve seriously been considering moving my fifth valve lever to the left hand (per pre-1980s proclivities), and converting the right hand thumb lever to a main slide pull-in lever for the fifth partial.

...approach-angle for first valve slide milking…??
depends on the player in the tuba, as witnessed above.

[Doc]

I'll drill holes in Miraphone casings without a care, but boring a hole in a Hirsbrunner valve case requires thought. I've been thinking about it for five years now.

Understood.

I followed Joe's instructions (with proper bit) and vented the first valve on my Kaiser and on the Eastman 562 without issue. It was a very simple procedure, to be sure. My only concern was marring the lacquer and brass when starting the hole. My Miraphone 496 requires very little slide manipulation (thankfully), but I would still like to vent a couple of the valves. Considering my inexperience with drilling around on fine instruments, and knowing the cost of this instrument, I am loathe to start scratching it up just yet. At some point I'll bite the bullet and simply try not to gouge it up too badly.

[tubanh84]

PT6 - I used to reach through when I needed to, but I generally held it on the side for the 2nd valve slide kicker
Gnagey - Through, even though I could go over; Seems to put me in a more natural position
PT10 - Through
MW182....Pretty hard to do anything but over
Rudy 5/4 - Over is the only real option