FB: Cerveny 5V F Kaiser

[hrender]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1130819 ... 1004410908



Ad is on FB so visibility may be limited to folks with accounts.

[matt g]

The diameter of the rotors looks to increase as the taper increases. Interesting.

[the elephant]

Same as B&S. The original Symphonie had five different rotors, too.

[matt g]

Same as B&S. The original Symphonie had five different rotors, too.

Even the outer casings increased in diameter? Cool! Wasn’t aware of that.

[the elephant]

@matt g

Thanks to Jake for the image…

[bort2.0]

^ How do you operate that 5th valve?

The Cerveny looks neat.

[MartinMan]

^ How do you operate that 5th valve?

The Cerveny looks neat.

It appears to be a left hand thumb lever like a couple other cervenys I've seen.

[the elephant]

LH lever, behind the tuba, inside the top bow.

[Rick Denney]

My first Symphonie (first generation) as had clock springs and the fifth was operated by the left thumb on the backside.

Either the Cerveny or the early Symphonie was obviously a collaboration or an approved ripoff—both being under “central planning”. I can’t tell from these pictures which might have come first.

My current Symphonie is from the last batch made from available parts right around unification. By that time, Cerveny’s F (653?) was very different.

Rick “wondering if this came from a pile of B&S parts” Denney

[hrender]

My first Symphonie (first generation) as had clock springs and the fifth was operated by the left thumb on the backside.

Either the Cerveny or the early Symphonie was obviously a collaboration or an approved ripoff—both being under “central planning”. I can’t tell from these pictures which might have come first.

My current Symphonie is from the last batch made from available parts right around unification. By that time, Cerveny’s F (653?) was very different.

Rick “wondering if this came from a pile of B&S parts” Denney

From the text of the ad:

Bore: 18.2mm-18.2mm-19.00mm-19.8mm-21.0mm
Overall Length: 40”
Weight: 16.5#
Bell diameter: 18”
Valves: 5
Date: 1918-1925

From the estimated date range, I'm not sure how much central planning was in vogue at the time.

[Rick Denney]

Yeah, I had not read the text of the ad--I can't always see FB ads on the systems I use. The date kills everything I said before.

If the 1920ish date is correct, it would suggest to me that B&S's Symphonie didn't plow fresh earth the way we always thorught. Indeed, the whole architecture of this instrument seems to create the pattern B&S followed three decades later. This isn't surprising, of course--the York pattern was ignored for several decades before being revived, mostly because of Jacobs.

Notwithstanding the similar layout and the graduated bore, this instrument is just plain bigger than any Symphonie. It almost seems like Cerveny's answer to the Eb Monsters being made in the US at the time.

Rick "there must be some historical connection, but what it is might remain a mystery" Denney

[hrender]

Logo plate is definitely post-WWI, and the overall model features (wide kranz, valve details, etc.) plus the fact that it's a logo plate makes it appear to be pre-WWII, but I'm not an expert.