Tuner recommendations

[DonO.]

What electronic tuner do the rest of you use to check intonation and individual slide tuning? I have several and all of them have trouble in the lower ranges and are totally useless in the pedal range. I would love to know how much slide pull is necessary on the various notes from first partial down to pedal but the tuners can’t “hear” down there. I know some players have the old Conn Strobotuners and I imagine those could do it, but is there a newer more technologically up to date option?

[DonO.]

I have an app for my phone, iStroboSoft, that is a pretty solid mimic of a strobe tuner.

Most tuners struggle in the lower range of the tuba, mainly because the fundamental is on a bad spot in the response curve, and the tuba, in particular, throws a lot of strong overtones that the tuner picks up instead.

The strobe tuner does alright, but I find the best result is to get the horn close in the register where the tuner works and then use something that can put out a clean “drone” and work from ear on those really low and lots of valves notes.

[bloke]

I can buy wholesale, but I've seen retail prices that are very close to dealer cost (UNLESS some dealer buys HUNDREDS of given types of gadgets, etc.)

Lately, I've ended up with a KORG TM-60.

It is an enough-features tuner, as well as an enough-features metronome, and is quite easy on batteries.
It is only slightly larger than the cheapo CA-30.
It's also very forgiving - lack-of-damage-wise - when it inadvertently ends up being pulled off my stand (too many books/bottles of oil/cat treats/what-have-you placed on the stand).

It hears low enough (for me) - and without a high-quality auxiliary microphone.
It hears the lowest A♮ on the piano keyboard. I'm not much interested in anything much lower.

I'm NOT interested in a phone "app". My "phone" (ie. "Satan's curse") sits on my nightstand - unless I leave the house.

I'm seeing them on eBay for "a quick stop at the dollar store" money: $20 - $25 or so...

Adjusted for inflation - from the year I was born in the later 1950's, that would be $2.

bloke "It's a good thing we have inflation under control, and that the dollar has always remained 'strong'."

[Mary Ann]

I do have a question about why to have a tuner, as opposed to a drone source. Rather than have something tell me how far I am from the center of a tempered tuning pitch, I'd rather have a drone I can listen to and determine whether I can fit my pitch properly to it interval-wise so that my ears do not complain. To check out an instrument this might take some time but I think I would prefer it.

I can see a use to tell whether an instrument's intonation is "stretched" -- highs higher than what the tuner suggests, and lows lower than what the tuner suggests. But I'd also prefer to use a drone for that, I think.

Only difference -- when I was playing oboe in a small orchestra, it was extremely helpful to have a tuner on the stand so that the A was actually 440 and not just somewhere close by.

[DonO.]

Thank you for the posts so far. Yes, doing all this by ear would be nice, but I am looking for electronic affirmation of what I’m doing. For example, on my BBb, here’s what I’m doing that sounds correct to my ears. (But my ears what aren’t what they used to be. I have mild to moderate hearing loss and some tinnitus.) Going from F below the staff to pedal Bb, I do F-4, E- 1-4, Eb- 124, D- 234, Db- 134, C-1234 with 1st valve slide pull, B natural- impossible!, pedal Bb- open. So for that part of the range, I only pull a slide on low C. But I have no idea how much to pull. Yes, I try to tune it by ear, but it is hard to hear, and you can’t really do that in a piece. With the other notes, by trying to compensate, so to speak, by using the next fingering down, I worry I might be flat (despite it sounding right to me), or that some of those notes are still a little sharp and need a slide pull. Now mind you, I don’t play in any ensembles at this time, I only play for my own amusement. But I do have one solo that goes that low on a cadenza.

I like the idea of a standalone tuner rather than a phone app.

[DonO.]

@DonO., if you’re looking for a standalone and want to mitigate the response issues, there’s this:



The clip on part is far better at picking up the pitches desired. It easily clips on the receiver or leadpipe.

The typical BBb fingering chart would be:

E - 2+4 with pulling 4 a bit
Eb - 1+2+4 with slides in or 1 + 4 with a good pull on 1
D - 2+3+4 with minimal adjustments
Db - 1+3+4 with a healthy pull on 1
C - all 4 with some adjustments, usually a pull on 1
B - 2+3 and a prayer for good false tones

[DonO.]

Thanks Matt! I never tried the false tone thing before. Will give it a go.

[bloke]

I use a tuner to spot-check, keep myself honest, and to teach my ear to play in (quite out-of-tune, as is known) equal temperament - when there is a prominent electronic instrument in an ensemble - or when accompanying a piano concerto.
...a couple of the reasons that you outline in your own question.
fiddles and trumpets - higher-pitched, the more tired they become
me: lower-pitched, the less-frequently I play (ex: in a symphonic work - whereby the composer/orchestrator exercised good taste/judgment, etc. )
me at home: after playing for five minutes straight - (when the instrument is quite warm) reminding myself of just how much the overall tuning creeps upward, reminding myself of which out-of-tune overtones creep closer to "in-tune" - and by how much.
Thereby, I've become pretty good about remembering where to put my main slides (in my various instruments) when cold, and where to reset them - if there's quite a bit of subsequent playing. I'm never in a section of 8 to 12 tubas (only me) as there are fiddles; thus there is no aggregate intonation which I can lean into or trace.

bloke "The better the job I do of helping the soprano/solo instruments sound their very best (by offering them reliable intonation), the more the chance of me being hired back...ie. My 'tone' may not be much better than others, but - well - if I can see to it that my 'tune' is better than most others, well..."

I do have a question about why to have a tuner, as opposed to a drone source. Rather than have something tell me how far I am from the center of a tempered tuning pitch, I'd rather have a drone I can listen to and determine whether I can fit my pitch properly to it interval-wise so that my ears do not complain. To check out an instrument this might take some time but I think I would prefer it.

I can see a use to tell whether an instrument's intonation is "stretched" -- highs higher than what the tuner suggests, and lows lower than what the tuner suggests. But I'd also prefer to use a drone for that, I think.

Only difference -- when I was playing oboe in a small orchestra, it was extremely helpful to have a tuner on the stand so that the A was actually 440 and not just somewhere close by.

[Mary Ann]

I decided not to go on one of my intonation rants. You all have heard it before.

[MikeMason]

Tonal energy app. Great tuner and metronome combo

[matt g]

One other note about the clip on accessory for the Korg tuner: if you’re in a situation where you’re trying to figure out some pitches amongst general cacophony, the clip on allows the tuner to reject all of the other noise.

[bloke]

I'm thinking that I still have some of those (marketed through Wick) BLUE TOOTH (wireless) clamp-on mics, which are specifically designed to clamp on to an instrument, and (the other component) plug into the 1/4" input on a tuner.
This not only allows the tuner to ONLY hear you, but ALSO you're not knocking stuff off your stand with a clumsy wire (etc.)

The thing actually has a secondary function. The clamp-on part (stand-alone - without the blue-tooth function) is a clamp-on open-strings guitar tuner, as well.

Each of the two components (microphone/sender and receiver) are powered by a nickel-shaped wafer battery.
Any of them will work...it's just that some of the nickel-sized are rated to last longer than others.
The cheapest batteries I've found are on a card (along with a bunch of the smaller size) at Tractor Supply.

[GC]

Tonal energy app. Great tuner and metronome combo

Plus a whole lot of other things. I also find that it zeroes in on the loudest sound, unlike a lot of dedicated tuners that zero in on higher pitches instead of the tuba range. It really locks in on tuba sound even in a noisy room.

Using it on an iPad adds several things into the mix. On the bigger screen, it has a sound generator, and it even has a mini-keyboard with a couple of dozen synthesized voices, a wave form visualizer, and a few other toys.

[kingrob76]

I use a Korg CA-50 with a contact microphone.

I use it A LOT. Especially in less-than-stellar groups who struggle to match pitch. My tuner is nicknamed "my sanity" because it keeps me grounded the correct neighborhoods and allows me to attempt to strictly enforce A=440 (or encourage others to play in that neighborhood). I don't have perfect pitch and it's my tendency to match what I hear because in the more-than-ordinary groups that's what I do. So it's not uncommon to see me check my sanity during a rehearsal or on occasion during a performance.

I did a church job once where the 2nd trumpet was 30-40 cents sharp on a couple of notes. The Director kept yelling at me - in an increasingly ruder and ruder fashion- about being out of tune (the rest of the group was fine) because we were on the same note. The keyboard player says "it's not him, it's the trumpet" and she says "what makes you say that??? How can YOU tell?" and he says "there's a tuner on his stand. He's right on with it and with me. The trumpet is 40 cents sharp on that note." You could SEE the fumes coming off the Director. I said nothing during all of this. Turns out the trumpet player was the Director's college-aged daughter (and a music major, apparently). The gig was close to home and paid extremely well, but I'll never play there again if asked.

[windshieldbug]

Tonal energy app. Great tuner and metronome combo

Plus it tunes and plays in many temperaments (not only equal, but also just).
You can have it play chords in different temperaments to help you hear the difference.
It's the only one I've used for years.

[Nworbekim]

i have gone thru several tuners and find that none are any much good for me... either they don't go low enough or they're not fast enough. i spot check if i hear something i don't think is right.

the one i use mostly is a cheapy Korg that clips on the lead pipe... the conductor of the band that actually really TUNES, always asks me to provide the Bb/F for the band to hear... and i want to be there. it's on the horn but i really can't see it that close without glasses and if i wear glasses the music on the stand is fuzzy. i do however catch myself using it when i have to play in a thinly textured piece of music where i don't have much harmony to reference to.

i keep a korg (i think the model is WR1) wireless on my practice stand. it has a clip-on that feels the horn's vibrations and transmits it to the tuner on the stand. it works great, but it takes up a lot of room.

i use a drone a lot...

[bloke]

Once again, the tuner/metronome that I mentioned is cheap, and (in my experience) "hears" to "low A" on the 88 keyboard.

phone apps...OK...but my tuner - from time-to-time - falls off my music stand.
My phone is - not only annoying (which is why it stays on my nightstand) but expensive (were I to have to replace it - which is why I still have it - though I despise it)...so I'd rather not prop it on a music stand.

[bloke]

Here's a video of the Korg TM-60 detecting and reporting on the veracity of the lowest A natural on the piano keyboard:



The device is actually considerably SMALLER than this image:



btw...
I can tell by how NOT loud the metronome function is that my batteries are nearly toast, YET, everything is fully functioning.

[royjohn]

Based on bloke's recommendation and my research on what it did, I ordered a used TM-60 with the contact mike for $30 total off ebay in May and I've been using it since then. It works about like bloke said it would, and my range being only about down the bottom piano A right now, it is great for my needs...it does seem to go a bit lower than that when I practice new low notes...And, yes, as he said, it does survive being pulled off my music stand onto the floor, altho' that happens less now that I've learned to grab it off the stand when changing music, etc. I like being able to use the tuner and the metronome together at times.

Some tuner apps I've used on my phone seem too slide all over the place, but the TM-60 seems to lock on my [average?] pitch pretty well so that I can get a good reading on about where I am. I was pleased to find out that my Mack 410 (the elephant's old horn) does seem to be about point and shoot within about 5 to 10 cents in my range. I don't think I'd ever want to play a horn that needed endless adjustments...
royjohn, tuba newbie

[Beyond16]

I spent months writing a strobe tuner app for Windows. Unlike the commercial ones, mine doesn't use FFT or any other digital audio techniques. It's a more direct emulation. It's true to my memories of the mechanical strobe tuner in my 1970's band class. I think it's the most realistic software strobe tuner I have seen. But that's not necessarly a good thing. The strobe tuner is a primitive solution using 1950's technology. A fairly powerful Windows computer is needed. The app is free and open source, https://sourceforge.net/projects/strobetuner/. I probably have used this app myself less than 5 minutes total. Looking at a tuner is too distracting for me.

After practicing tube for 1+ hours a day for a year or so, I decided I should diversify the use of my retirement time and do other things I am good at. Besides washing dishes and yard work, software development is the only thing I am good at. So I decided to write a modern tuner as a second retirement software project. I thought about it for a long time, and did experiments. A tuner has to recognize things like a missing or weak first harmonic to correctly identify the note and octave. I decided a useful tuner needs to follow along as I play, and recognize and log each note.

A basic tool for developing such a tuner app is a spectrum viewer. All the spectrum software I found was disappointing. They all claim real-time operation, yet can't update the display anywhere near real time. Even the commercial spectrum software lacks resolution. So I decided to change my plan and write a spectrum viewing app instead of a tuner. I cut my tuba practice to 20 minutes per day and started working on the spectrum viewer. After a year of development, it's finished. If you need to view an audio spectrum real time (or from a wave file), I believe this app is far better than anything out there, for any price. It you need to tune a musical instrument, it's not recommended for that use. It too is free and open source: https://sourceforge.net/projects/spectr ... r-windows/.

The spectrum viewer might be fun for looking at the various harmonics. It handles frequencies from 1/2 Hz to 96,000 Hz. You would have to zoom into the frequency range for tuba. I would never use it for tuning myself. But you could give it a wav file, pause at the appropriate spot, and then check the frequency with the mouse cursor. Here is an example:



Either of these apps is a tough way to tune. So much easier to just play along with a reference pitch from a piano or other instrument.