Harvey Phillips Conn CC Tuba

[hrender]

Ran across the post below on Instagram. This may be the CC tuba that “inspired” the Holton Harvey Phillips model? Interesting tuba and great post.

[bloke]

If you’re referring to the 330 C model - which was the factory “cut” sister of the B-flat 331, I’m pretty sure that those models (based on examining them up close, as well as looking at pictures) were recycled from some short 4/4 size tooling which Holton used beginning a century ago or so ago. I never heard about a C version (of the design to which I specifically refer) cut down from the B-flat until those two models came out shortly before Holton was shuttered, but the various Holton generations of that basic short/compact/wide-bell design resemble – nearly completely – the bell and bows manufactured by York over in Michigan: the Model 33 and such. (The Holton and York bell-ands -bugle designs were so similar, that some people believe that one factory made the bodies for both models, but I don’t believe that to be true at all.)

Linked below is an old write up that I think was published shortly after those models were released. The pictures are pretty clear, and I believe it it’s pretty clear that the instrument is basically the same bell and bows shapes that Holton – again – recycled two or three times during its history, and that resemble the short 4/4 York designs very much… (The Holton B-flat - that some may have watched me stick together in the repair forum - began its life as a three-valve top-action 1960s release of the same bell and bows design.)
I’m pretty sure that all of the generations of that design were very short – only 32 inches tall – just as it is the one that I currently own.
Those who’ve seen Mr. Phillips’ short Conn C tuba will see that this Holton/York shape (shortened to C) is not a whole lot different from the primary Conn instrument that Mr. Phillips mostly played, which – I’m guessing – is why Mr. Phillips was willing to endorse that new Holton model.

https://www.norlanbewley.com/holton331.htm

[groovlow]

thanks for the post.
Love the C# 23FTone !

[bloke]

indeed...I enjoyed listening as well...
Thank-you.

[bort2.0]

Sounded quite a bit different than Harvey...

[tofu]

.

[bloke]

@tofu

re: Holton 330/331

Those things are only 32" tall and the bell diameter is only 18"
(significantly smaller than the "new-style" squatty King tubas).

I don't know how big/tall that person is, and - further - many tubas (in pictures with their owners) tend to be the beneficiaries of perspective - just as with caught fish.

finally: Notice how the bell barely clears the top of his head.

[York-aholic]

The old Conn CC that Harvey played was quite a bit different that the Harvey Phillips model that Holton built. Wasn't that Holton billed as the first computer designed tuba?

I think I read that Harvey's Conn got smooshed one way or another and after being completely resurrected, didn't play to his liking.

Here is a picture of him with his Conn. Definitely not a large tuba by any stretch of the imagination. And yet, it seems that he never had trouble balancing any ensemble he played in (including subbing in plenty of orchestras)...

[York-aholic]

If you look in the picture at the top of the page, above Sergio's right shoulder are a few pictures. Here is the one of Harvey.

[bloke]

I honestly don’t see much difference.
Harvey‘s old Conn that everyone was accustomed to seeing was not many more than 30 inches tall - probably 32 or so (notice that in the picture the Conn bell barely clears Harvey‘s head, just as in the Bewley picture of the Holton), and had a wide bell and a small bore – I would guess .658” or something like that…(??)
… The Holton was just about the same tuba over the years; that design had always featured a 19 inch bell, but they cut it to 18 for the Phillips models. The Holton bore size (whether top or front action) was always .665” … again - other than the valveset - just about a dead ringer for a York 33.

I’ve had both a Phillips 330 and 331 up next to my reconfigured Holton (again: which was made in the 1960s, was top action, was .665 inch bore, and was sold as a “student“ model at that time.)
They may have used a computer to play around with the bows’ configurations, but it’s the same old tooling.

able to be heard:
This design can make a lot of racket. I don’t know if you remember me posting a bunch of little clips from the first time I used mine in an orchestra (which was the Bartok Concerto for Orchestra). It made plenty of racket, particularly that disruptive B-natural in the last movement - shortly after that quick dance commences.

[bort2.0]

The tuba in those photos of Harvey... How close Is that to either the 2J or 3J?

[kingrob76]

Which Rochut etude is Sergio playing here? Can't find it in my books....

[cjk]

The tuba in those photos of Harvey... How close Is that to either the 2J or 3J?

I always thought that Harvey’s tuba was about the size of a 3j (which isn’t all that different from a 2j). I still think this.

[York-aholic]

I always thought that Harvey’s tuba was about the size of a 3j (which isn’t all that different from a 2j). I still think this.

That has always been my impression too.

[bloke]

… and also extremely similar in size to the York model 33 and the extremely similar Holton instruments, including the last time Holton dragged that tooling off the shelf – just before they were shuttered – to create the “Phillips“ models…whether or not they drew pictures of those models on a computer screen.