1963 Miraphone 186 advice

[Jpcrane]

I’ve been looking for one locally (NC) and haven’t been able to find a used Miraphone 186 bbb for a decent price. I found one online but the seller doesn’t know anything about it, doesn’t have a written description in his post, and just has pictures.

It’s serial number is 2259 which per Google would indicate that it’s a 1963 model. Does anyone know anything about the quality of the 1963 186 tuba or where I would be able to find more information? Are there particular things I should be looking for or ask the buyer? I’d basically be buying it with only seeing pictures. Thanks in advance!

I’ve saved the photos in a Google drive folder here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

[bort2.0]

Sounds like a suspicious posting... can I ask what the price is? (Or just a ballpark... not sure what a "good price" is to you). I can't say it IS a scam, but that tuba looks pretty nice, and people don't usually end up with tubas and no other information.

The early 186's (all of them, really) are solid, classic BBb tubas. That one looks like it's in pretty nice shape, and anything wrong with it can be repaired. A little cleanup and servicing, and you should have a very nice tuba.

Guessing -- but if it's close to, but under $2k, I think that sounds about right. If it's under $1k, I'd be really careful. If it does seem legit enough to pursue, I'd suggest meeting the person at the police station or something.

[Jpcrane]

Sounds like a suspicious posting... can I ask what the price is? (Or just a ballpark... not sure what a "good price" is to you). I can't say it IS a scam, but that tuba looks pretty nice, and people don't usually end up with tubas and no other information.

The early 186's (all of them, really) are solid, classic BBb tubas. That one looks like it's in pretty nice shape, and anything wrong with it can be repaired. A little cleanup and servicing, and you should have a very nice tuba.

Guessing -- but if it's close to, but under $2k, I think that sounds about right. If it's under $1k, I'd be really careful. If it does seem legit enough to pursue, I'd suggest meeting the person at the police station or something.

Thanks for your response!

His original asking price was 2K. He has lowered it some but is still trying to figure out how much it will be to ship, so it may be right around that 2k mark. Unfortunately he is not local to me. If I do get it I'll use paypal "goods and services" which doesn't give them the money until you tell them you received the item and it was as described. There is a bit of a language barrier too, so that might account for the lack of description.

[bort2.0]

Where is the tuba located? Maybe someone here is located close enough to it to check it out?

[Jpcrane]

Where is the tuba located? Maybe someone here is located close enough to it to check it out?

El está en México wey. (He's in Mexico)

[bort2.0]

Where is the tuba located? Maybe someone here is located close enough to it to check it out?

El está en México wey. (He's in Mexico)

Seems like another red flag...

[matt g]

Considering the condition and what looks to be a decent bag, if the seller started off around $2,000, I’d be pretty suspicious. If I owned this and the rotors were in decent shape compression-wise, I’d be starting around $3,500 as initial point of departure for negotiations.

[bloke]

At the risk of sounding like another smart ass bloke post, what is your definition of a “decent price“?

My definition of a decent gasoline price is two bucks a gallon, and a better grade of sirloin steak probably four bucks a pound…

That having been said, if you and I are fellow bottom feeders, let me extend a hand of brotherhood to you.

[Jpcrane]

At the risk of sounding like another smart ass bloke post, what is your definition of a “decent price“?

My definition of a decent gasoline price is two bucks a gallon, and a better grade of sirloin steak probably four bucks a pound…

That having been said, if you and I are fellow bottom feeders, let me extend a hand of brotherhood to you.

Awesome, I love it! I was hoping to get a used but it decent playable Miraphone 186 for around $2K.

[Jpcrane]

Considering the condition and what looks to be a decent bag, if the seller started off around $2,000, I’d be pretty suspicious. If I owned this and the rotors were in decent shape compression-wise, I’d be starting around $3,500 as initial point of departure for negotiations.

Yep. I agree, his starting price seems low. I am suspicious and will proceed with caution. Thanks!

[bloke]

$2000 for that model is a kind of goofy price point.

I have a couple sitting around here that were almost given to me, but - by the time I make them nice, I’ll probably want over $4000 for each of them due to the amount of work I will have to put into them to make them nice.

When I’m looking for a quick flip of a 186, I’m usually having to pay about $3000+ to get one that is shiny, not very dented, includes a hard case (so I can sell it to a school - as they usually require hard cases), and that I can fix up in one long day of work, and offer to a school for about $4500 or so.

I guess you’ve seen that new ones - from the big box online places - are now $10,000 plus shipping - in regular yellow brass, and with no case included.

[hrender]

I've bought things on-line being sold by folks who knew nothing about the thing or how to determine fair market value. In one case, it was a tuba sold by the care-giver of a man who passed in a hospice setting. No descendants, etc. The horn needed no work, and I played it happily for several years. In another case, I bought a 600mm camera lens from a person who was clearing out the belongings of a former spouse. "You want it, it's yours."

That said, if the horn is out of the country, I would tread carefully unless the seller has a stellar, verifiable on-line reputation.

[jtm]

...
That having been said, if you and I are fellow bottom feeders, let me extend a hand of brotherhood to you.

That special kind of bottom feeder with a really quite amazing Miraphone 98...

[bloke]

Today, I walked into a pawnshop and bought two items off of a clearance/make us an offer table for a total of $97 including tax.
- A perfect condition made in Japan Roland cube 60 amplifier
- an 18 V Ridgid drill with battery and charger in new condition

There are always “deals“ like that for bottom feeders like me, but they’re not the everyday type of deal.
Further, you don’t necessarily find a deal on the specific type of thing that you would like to buy. You often have to settle for a “deal” on something that you’re buying even though you don’t particularly need it.
I’m glad to have the drill, because my Dewalt electric drill absolutely sucks _ _ _ , and the Roland Cube 60 amp is going to be a significant upgrade for amplifying music outputs from my laptop (unless I wanted to drag my huge PA system over to my laptop and hook it up, which was a PITA)… but again: I wasn’t necessarily specifically shopping for those things.
I did – after a decade or so – just recently purchase a model of tuba that I have been very interested in, but never found one at my price point. It took a decade, but I finally located one at my bottom-feeder price.
Anyway, you may well find a beautiful 186 for $2000 bucks, and - if you do - I’ll be the first to offer you sincere congratulations.

[hrender]

Further, you don’t necessarily find a deal on the specific type of thing that you would like to buy. You often have to settle for a “deal” on something that you’re buying even though you don’t particularly need it.

This. Luck favors the prepared. McElligott's Pool.

[bloke]

…and - as referred to earlier in this thread, the way that I picked up the Miraphone model 98 was to

- bide my time to the extreme (Who else would sit around for a decade or so, calmly watching and waiting for a deal on something that - almost - doesn’t even exist?)
- take advantage of crazy deals on things that I liked but didn’t necessarily want/need, but - most importantly - that I knew others would like and want, and for which they would pay more
- have those items at the ready - in ready-to-liquidate condition, for when the bargain-priced unicorn might finally appear
——————
Perhaps the final piece of this puzzle – certainly not something as common as a 186 – Is that the unicorn for what I bided my time is such a unicorn that I really didn’t encounter any potential buyer competition, because no one else really has been able to discover how amazing these particular unicorns are, thus “virtually no supply” meets “virtually no demand”.

[York-aholic]

Wow, not everyone has McElligott's Pool sitting around handy. That is certainly not one of the most common Dr. Seuss stories.

York-aholic, the 2nd grade teacher

[greenbean]

Are we sure this is a 186?...

The backside of the horn does not like the 186's from the 60s and 70s that I have owned. But maybe they changed the wrap. I just double-checked photos of these horns. Nope - not the same 4th valve wrap.

[bloke]

You’ve prompted me to look at the pictures.
I recall re-restoring a super-old 186 - that belonged(s) to Mississippi State University - that looked that one, on the back.
If if it’s being considered for purchase based on pictures alone, that’s an awfully old instrument – 60 years old – to think about buying just based on some two dimensional photographs - at least, in my view.

Are we sure this is a 186?...

The backside of the horn does not like the 186's from the 60s and 70s that I have owned. But maybe they changed the wrap. I just double-checked photos of these horns. Nope - not the same 4th valve wrap.

[Jpcrane]

Are we sure this is a 186?...

The backside of the horn does not like the 186's from the 60s and 70s that I have owned. But maybe they changed the wrap. I just double-checked photos of these horns. Nope - not the same 4th valve wrap.

Thanks for noticing and pointing that out. Would "186" or something else to properly identify it be marked on the horn somewhere? Thanks!