Yamaha 641 BBb. what do you think?...

[greenbean]

I have read some mixed comments about the early 641 BBb. I forget what the issues were. Funky intonation, I suppose.

Are the newer ones better? Anyone played one?...

[bloke]

older were thicker gauge brass, were supplied with a sturdier (a real) case, and S-arm linkage.
The S-arm linkage featured adjustment screws which didn’t have lock nuts, so it always needed adjusting.

newer ask for all of the same alternate valve combinations and (long) slide pulling for good tuning.

‘ seemed to always try to associate this model with Alexander, yet - to me - is obvious that it’s a not-all-that-amazing M-W 25ish tuba.

I recently put one back in pretty good condition - thinking that the owner wanted me to sell it for them. I was sort of relieved when I found out they decided to keep it as a back up. I really don’t know where to sell these - other than to band directors - so many of whom seem to believe that Yamaha hung the moon.

I would accept one on consignment, but I’ve never bought one to fix up and sell, and don’t believe I ever would.

The valves turn, the slides move, they make sounds when blown into, are repairable, and - if someone is well-funded enough – Yamaha has parts to fix the “dash 2” versions.

[LeMark]

The valve action on any of these, even new ones have always seemed sluggish

High G has to be played 2nd or 3rd, high F# is usually sharp or flat depending on what fingering you use

[bloke]

As a broken record – other than the 826 which I would have, IF absolutely required to have that style of instrument by some regular employer – I find all of their products to be well-put-together-and-not-at-all-to-my-liking.

…and yes to all of Mark’s comments.
The rotor bodies seem to be more cylindrical than most, which is going to define more surface area.

[the elephant]

The ones from the eighties are usually okay if you can find one of that age that is still playable. That iteration of the model had the removable valve section and the one-piece yellow brass leadpipe. These usually play anywhere from gets-the-job-done good to *very* well and are probably what caused them to start selling a lot of the model.

The next iteration is junk, in my opinion. They have the removable valve section and a two-piece rose brass leadpipe (very noticeably pink, with a very different shape and a connecting ferrule just after it leaves the bell). In my opinion, these all play about as mediocrely as the YBB-321. I do not like them at all; none of them. The valves clank and are heavy, and something about the differently-shaped leadipipe just destroyed the tuba as an option for personal use. (I owned a 1983 YBB-641 for about ten years and gigged on it pretty hard. It was an outstanding tuba, and yes, I know I got lucky in that regard as that is unusual for this model.)

There is a third iteration I hear. I have never seen it, but it would be the current one. I think it is the same but the valve section is no longer removable, and I suspect it plays just as tepidly as the previous one with that leadpipe on it. (It is drastically different in shape from the one I had.)

It is also heavy, it dents fairly easily, and the slides may not have been aligned very well at the factory. Many have the rep for not having much of a low Ab, though I have never come across this. Mine had a very solid low Ab. On my 641 the intonation was excellent, except that high G had to be 3rd, and overall it was sharp and had to be pulled out pretty far. On the ones with the two-piece leadpipe the intonation is not all that good, but I think the main slide can at least be out only an inch or so.

Good luck. These horns seem to be a touchstone for every complaint tubas players can level at a tuba. Many of them are accurate, but many are fairytales. If you want to buy one you really must test every example you are considering. They are that inconsistent.

[greenbean]

Thanks for your thoughts, guys. I bought one locally some months back and it has been sitting at my tech's waiting for it to rise up in priority before getting any attention. I bought it because it seemed to be in good shape, aside from some minor denting and a fair amount of internal grunginess, and the price was good. The question now is whether the VMI that I bought a few days ago arrives first because I am MUCH more interested in that tuba. I would bump that to the front of the line, for sure.


Anyway, the 641 will be for sale soon whether I like it or not. As well as *at least* two other TBD tubas.

[hrender]

I had one 1979-87 (SN 000669) that I purchased for college. It was the first and only horn I bought new. As mentioned the valves were sluggish, but I had a local tech replace the old s-links with rods with ball-and-socket joints, and that significantly improved the action. I had trouble with the tone and pitch on the thing until I switched to a C4 mouthpiece, and that significantly improved playing it. I sold mine to the U. of Illinois music department while I was there for grad school thinking I wouldn't be playing again anytime soon (I was right). It was not my favorite instrument, although I had compliments on the sound. If anyone in or around the UofI knows what happened to it, I would be interested to hear.

[bloke]

A large public university (about 70 miles from my home) quite a few years ago cycled out their wonderful recording bell model 1241 4-valve King tubas (at which time the detachable upright bells could still be ordered new) and replaced them with Yamaha YBB-641-II tubas. I consider that to have been a tragedy. Sure, the 1241's could have used a conversion (simply shortening the #1 and #3 circuits) to 2341 tubas, but - well - they would have then had EVEN BETTER King tubas, rather than a bunch of "difficult" tubas.

Most college students (particularly those who use school instruments, and are either - simply - band members or - at most - music "minors") aren't skilled enough to be able to negotiate "difficult" musical instruments very effectively.

King tubas are easy, those Yamaha tubas (in my view) are difficult.

bloke "...and - regularly purchasing replacement parts for both - the King replacement parts are still reasonably priced."

[Schlitzz]

A large public university (about 70 miles from my home) quite a few years ago cycled out their wonderful recording bell model 1241 4-valve King tubas .....and replaced them with Yamaha YBB-641-II tubas. I consider that to have been a tragedy........

Most college students (particularly those who use school instruments, and are either - simply - band members or - at most - music "minors") aren't skilled enough to be able to negotiate "difficult" musical instruments very effectively.

King tubas are easy, those Yamaha tubas (in my view) are difficult.

bloke "...and - regularly purchasing replacement parts for both - the King replacement parts are still reasonably priced."

Well yes, it's great that you are about 70 miles from the institution. I wouldn't want a college student (fashion merchandising/interior design major) coming to my house, if I was a tech. The candy yam is difficult at best to play for non-majors. I have a DE CB P setup to get mine reasonably sounding.

Looking at the churn rate for instruction, and enrollment at some institutions, it's probably a higher priority to keep the trumpet, trombone, and conducting areas under control. Having shiny, complicated, and difficult horns on display at the instrument check out desk, might deter these fashionistas from wasting the tech's time in checking the horn out to them.

My time as a commuting, non-music major student had me taking buses, and ferries daily. Fortunately, my euph was in a backpack case, and it all turned out fine. While being a non-music major on tuba can be challenging, it beats being in an Army band.

[bloke]

Obviously, you like yours, and don't find it to be as difficult as do I.

I've owned several difficult tubas, which are all now the (presumably) proudly-owned property of others.

My universities were (probably?) under the impression that I was a "major", but - while attending them - they were (in reality) minor parts of my life-in-general.

Today, they are distant memories, which I tend to think of as "the lost years". I didn't mind the 22K plastic sousa (as they sort-of traded out the adjusted-for-2022-inflation equivalent of $30/hr. to blow into it), but would have objected to a 641 (particularly if I had to actually pay tuition - in order to blow into it).

bloke "not talented enough to effectively play difficult instruments"

[Schlitzz]

Obviously, you like yours, and don't find it to be as difficult as do I.

I've owned several difficult tubas, which are all now the (presumably) proudly-owned property of others.

My universities were (probably?) under the impression that I was a "major", but - while attending them - they were (in reality) minor parts of my life-in-general……..

2022-inflation equivalent of $30/hr. to blow into it), but would have objected to a 641 (particularly if I had to actually pay tuition - in order to blow into it).

bloke "not talented enough to effectively play difficult instruments"

There’s plenty of college age tuba players looking for the $30.00 @ hour blow. One finally did get married, kids, when he finished the degree. Took 10 years, and she did marry him. Not bad for a viola player.

[bloke]

Back in the 70s, I calculated that the hours that I spent messing around in marching band and basketball band were hours whereby I made 5 dollars an hour (the equivalent of 30 today) doing that mess, and exchange for tuition, fees, books, and miscellany they were covering… even a modest amount of walking around money.
My understanding is that - today - tuition rates have skyrocketed out the roof, and very few offer any sort of scholarships for playing in those sports-events bands. I basically viewed those bands as “low-paying but steady gigs”, and weren’t things in which I would otherwise have engaged.

[Schlitzz]

Back in the 70s, I calculated that the hours that I spent messing around in marching band and basketball band were hours whereby I made 5 dollars an hour (the equivalent of 30 today) doing that mess, and exchange for tuition, fees, books, and miscellany they were covering… even a modest amount of walking around money.
My understanding is that - today - tuition rates have skyrocketed out the roof, and very few offer any sort of scholarships for playing in those sports-events bands. I basically viewed those bands as “low-paying but steady gigs”, and weren’t things in which I would otherwise have engaged.

Life is about choices. I did an 8 yr enlistment for the college money. I ended up using the VA mortgage benefit too. But I got out in the Seattle area, did the community college for the lower division stuff, with tuition waivers. By doing so, I had enough left over for the business degree I got in the last year. I have a modded 641, the slides, valves are not stock per the previous owner. While the horn may be difficult for some, @bort2.0 it fits in my car.

[bloke]

fitzz

[Three Valves]

The question now is whether the VMI that I bought a few days ago arrives first because I am MUCH more interested in that tuba. I would bump that to the front of the line, for sure.


Anyway, the 641 will be for sale soon whether I like it or not. As well as *at least* two other TBD tubas.

Keep me/us updated especially on the cool bag you pick out for the VMI...

[greenbean]

Will do. I expect to have the VMI this evening.