lacquer or silver ?
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- bloke
- Mid South Music
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Re: lacquer or silver ?
186
MW 2155
PT-18p (MRP)
JP 274 MKII
For sale
Laskey 30G, American shank https://tubaforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=9 ... 2f1502a4d7
Giddings Baer CC Euro shank https://tubaforum.net/viewtopic.php?p=96137#p96137
PT-18p (MRP)
JP 274 MKII
For sale
Laskey 30G, American shank https://tubaforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=9 ... 2f1502a4d7
Giddings Baer CC Euro shank https://tubaforum.net/viewtopic.php?p=96137#p96137
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Re: lacquer or silver ?
Oh lawd, not this topic :lol: Silver wins more auditions, change my mind. :geek: :lol:
06' Miraphone 187-4U
- Rick Denney
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Re: lacquer or silver ?
But the laquer is purdy-er... :lol:KingTuba1141X wrote:Oh lawd, not this topic :lol: Silver wins more auditions, change my mind. :geek: :lol:
MW 2155
PT-18p (MRP)
JP 274 MKII
For sale
Laskey 30G, American shank https://tubaforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=9 ... 2f1502a4d7
Giddings Baer CC Euro shank https://tubaforum.net/viewtopic.php?p=96137#p96137
PT-18p (MRP)
JP 274 MKII
For sale
Laskey 30G, American shank https://tubaforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=9 ... 2f1502a4d7
Giddings Baer CC Euro shank https://tubaforum.net/viewtopic.php?p=96137#p96137
- Jperry1466
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Re: lacquer or silver ?
I prefer lacquer, but a tuba I think I want to buy only comes in silver. Oh the angst.
- Casca Grossa
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Re: lacquer or silver ?
Rotary valves
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- russiantuba
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Re: lacquer or silver ?
Can we be more inclusive and include raw brass in this debate? :D
Dr. James M. Green
Lecturer in Music--Ohio Northern University
Adjunct Professor of Music--Ohio Christian University
Gronitz PF 125
Miraphone 1291CC
Miraphone Performing Artist
www.russiantuba.com
Lecturer in Music--Ohio Northern University
Adjunct Professor of Music--Ohio Christian University
Gronitz PF 125
Miraphone 1291CC
Miraphone Performing Artist
www.russiantuba.com
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Re: lacquer or silver ?
Oh, Joe. . . .
I will mention that I have been having the tubas I'm building silver-plated, although I was long a fan of lacquer.
Lacquer finishes are less maintenance for the owner/operator, but, for my purposes I've not found anyone that can do a baked-on
epoxy job that is clean-enough, and durable-enough to hold a candle to an Anderson silver plating job. The second reason I am silver
plating my horns is because of durability. I first noticed back in the 1990's that some old Conn tubas were going on 90 years old,
and still had an intact original leadpipe, unlike 25-year-old Mirafones and Hirsbrunners, which were also good horns. What was
the difference? Upon close inspection, I found that these old Conns were copper-flashed and silver-plated inside-and-out. I
started thinking about this, and realized that a brass leadpipe that is sealed inside-and-out in copper and silver is likely to not
have any problems for at least a couple of centuries. So, instead of the common modern practice of filling a tuba with water,
plugging the bell and all other holes, and silver plating outside only, Anderson is plating my horns the old-fashioned way, so that
when I disassemble and clean one, all you see is silver inside. I find that with a silver interior, it just doesn't corrode or get nasty
like a brass-interior instrument does. It makes cleaning the tuba so much easier. So, that's my $0.02.
I will mention that I have been having the tubas I'm building silver-plated, although I was long a fan of lacquer.
Lacquer finishes are less maintenance for the owner/operator, but, for my purposes I've not found anyone that can do a baked-on
epoxy job that is clean-enough, and durable-enough to hold a candle to an Anderson silver plating job. The second reason I am silver
plating my horns is because of durability. I first noticed back in the 1990's that some old Conn tubas were going on 90 years old,
and still had an intact original leadpipe, unlike 25-year-old Mirafones and Hirsbrunners, which were also good horns. What was
the difference? Upon close inspection, I found that these old Conns were copper-flashed and silver-plated inside-and-out. I
started thinking about this, and realized that a brass leadpipe that is sealed inside-and-out in copper and silver is likely to not
have any problems for at least a couple of centuries. So, instead of the common modern practice of filling a tuba with water,
plugging the bell and all other holes, and silver plating outside only, Anderson is plating my horns the old-fashioned way, so that
when I disassemble and clean one, all you see is silver inside. I find that with a silver interior, it just doesn't corrode or get nasty
like a brass-interior instrument does. It makes cleaning the tuba so much easier. So, that's my $0.02.
- Doc
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Re: lacquer or silver ?
Why did they stop doing it this way? Is that little bit of copper and silver that much more expensive?Lee Stofer wrote: I started thinking about this, and realized that a brass leadpipe that is sealed inside-and-out in copper and silver is likely to not
have any problems for at least a couple of centuries. So, instead of the common modern practice of filling a tuba with water,
plugging the bell and all other holes, and silver plating outside only, Anderson is plating my horns the old-fashioned way, so that
when I disassemble and clean one, all you see is silver inside. I find that with a silver interior, it just doesn't corrode or get nasty
like a brass-interior instrument does. It makes cleaning the tuba so much easier. So, that's my $0.02.
Welcome to Browntown!
Home of the Brown Note!
Home of the Brown Note!
- bloke
- Mid South Music
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- bloke
- Mid South Music
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Re: lacquer or silver ?
Hi Lee,
Most of the Conn instruments - "back in the day" - that were scheduled to be silver plated were fabricated of "low brass", which (you know this...but not everyone does) is a funny-sounding-yet-correct-name of a specific brass alloy, which is 80:20 (copper:zinc).
The higher copper content allowed for better bonding of silver, and probably without a "copper strike" catalyst step in the procedure.
For others, 80:20 isn't super "red" colored, but has a more "golden" color to it that what are typically considered various "yellow" brass alloys.
In other words...it's not nearly as red as a Conn 88H trombone bell.
I've just never seen 80:20 dezinctify (ie. have never seen it "red rot"), which may (??) be why you've never encountered any originally-silver-plated Conn instruments' mouthpipes that are rotted. Even saxophones (which were originally silver plated at the Conn plant) were fabricated of "low" (80:20) brass. If anyone has ever seen old Conn 6M or 10M saxophone which had it factory silver buffed away and replaced with lacquer, try to remember the "golden" color of the metal. Likely, what you saw was (mostly) the color, and (OK...sure...somewhat) the color of the darkened-over-time lacquer.
Incidentally, most of Jp's (John Packer - made in China, an English company, with instruments offering remarkable fit and finish) upscale "3 series" instruments (for better or worse) are fabricated of 80:20 alloy "low" brass.
Most of the Conn instruments - "back in the day" - that were scheduled to be silver plated were fabricated of "low brass", which (you know this...but not everyone does) is a funny-sounding-yet-correct-name of a specific brass alloy, which is 80:20 (copper:zinc).
The higher copper content allowed for better bonding of silver, and probably without a "copper strike" catalyst step in the procedure.
For others, 80:20 isn't super "red" colored, but has a more "golden" color to it that what are typically considered various "yellow" brass alloys.
In other words...it's not nearly as red as a Conn 88H trombone bell.
I've just never seen 80:20 dezinctify (ie. have never seen it "red rot"), which may (??) be why you've never encountered any originally-silver-plated Conn instruments' mouthpipes that are rotted. Even saxophones (which were originally silver plated at the Conn plant) were fabricated of "low" (80:20) brass. If anyone has ever seen old Conn 6M or 10M saxophone which had it factory silver buffed away and replaced with lacquer, try to remember the "golden" color of the metal. Likely, what you saw was (mostly) the color, and (OK...sure...somewhat) the color of the darkened-over-time lacquer.
Incidentally, most of Jp's (John Packer - made in China, an English company, with instruments offering remarkable fit and finish) upscale "3 series" instruments (for better or worse) are fabricated of 80:20 alloy "low" brass.
Lee Stofer wrote:Oh, Joe. . . .
I will mention that I have been having the tubas I'm building silver-plated, although I was long a fan of lacquer.
Lacquer finishes are less maintenance for the owner/operator, but, for my purposes I've not found anyone that can do a baked-on
epoxy job that is clean-enough, and durable-enough to hold a candle to an Anderson silver plating job. The second reason I am silver
plating my horns is because of durability. I first noticed back in the 1990's that some old Conn tubas were going on 90 years old,
and still had an intact original leadpipe, unlike 25-year-old Mirafones and Hirsbrunners, which were also good horns. What was
the difference? Upon close inspection, I found that these old Conns were copper-flashed and silver-plated inside-and-out. I
started thinking about this, and realized that a brass leadpipe that is sealed inside-and-out in copper and silver is likely to not
have any problems for at least a couple of centuries. So, instead of the common modern practice of filling a tuba with water,
plugging the bell and all other holes, and silver plating outside only, Anderson is plating my horns the old-fashioned way, so that
when I disassemble and clean one, all you see is silver inside. I find that with a silver interior, it just doesn't corrode or get nasty
like a brass-interior instrument does. It makes cleaning the tuba so much easier. So, that's my $0.02.
- Nworbekim
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Re: lacquer or silver ?
i love the looks of silver but i hate taking care of it... soooo.... LACQUER!
Miraphone 186 - King 2341 - JP179B - York & sons 1910 Eb - Meinl Weston 2145 - Wessex Festivo - King 2280
Play it with emotion and play it strong! Don't make a face and they won't know it's wrong!
Play it with emotion and play it strong! Don't make a face and they won't know it's wrong!
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Re: lacquer or silver ?
And what about the plastic horns?russiantuba wrote:Can we be more inclusive and include raw brass in this debate? :D
Re: lacquer or silver ?
There are gold people and there are silver people.
I dont wear gold jewelry, I dont own any GOLD or anyTHING gold. So Im a silver person.
But there are many happy gold people out there. I view it as mostly a wardrobe choice.
"Thats just like, my opinion man"
I dont wear gold jewelry, I dont own any GOLD or anyTHING gold. So Im a silver person.
But there are many happy gold people out there. I view it as mostly a wardrobe choice.
"Thats just like, my opinion man"
Wessex Chicago York
- ajtuba
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Re: lacquer or silver ?
How about both?
Eb bass, Brass Band of Columbus
King 2341/York 670 "Monster" Eb tuba, Parker CJH mouthpiece
E.A. Couturier "Conical Bore" Eb tuba
King 1250 BBb sousaphone
Conn 12H trombone
King 2341/York 670 "Monster" Eb tuba, Parker CJH mouthpiece
E.A. Couturier "Conical Bore" Eb tuba
King 1250 BBb sousaphone
Conn 12H trombone