Creating a Suitcase Euph

[bloke]

"just"...

If I gave a crap about the bell, though, I wouldn't...but that's just me.

A 3-valve comp. (with good valves) is a damn-nice instrument with usable (including 1-3, and 1-2-3) range to low E.
As a "band" instrument, I rarely hear ensemble parts (in wind-bands) written lower.

just my opinion, but I believe that institutional/grade-school wind-bands would do much better with far more (completely shelved, other than English-style baritones) 3-valve compensating system low brass instruments, vs. all of the 4-valve non-compensating instruments (which arrive in my shop with frozen/seized/never-used 4th valves)...and this would include (though never - or, possibly: extremely rarely-built) 3-valve compensating contras and sousaphones.

I believe I would trade better-in-tune B and E (on my used-for-high-passages YEP-321) for the of-no-use out-of-tune low E-flat, the serendipitously-usable low D, and no other actually-in-tune very low pitches above the fundamental.

[LeMark]

I still contend that if there was market demand for this horn or bell, I wouldn't have been the only bidder on it and gotten it for $29.

I guarantee, whatever I do to it, it will be worth more than that when I'm done with it.

Right now I'm trying to decide if I should use the tenon with the lower part of the bell that is on the horn now, or the stovepipe that is currently attached to the tenon. The one attached to the horn is in better shape

[bloke]

I still contend that if there was market demand for this horn or bell, I wouldn't have been the only bidder on it and gotten it for $29.

I guarantee, whatever I do to it, it will be worth more than that when I'm done with it.

Right now I'm trying to decide if I should use the tenon with the lower part of the bell that is on the horn now, or the stovepipe that is currently attached to the tenon. The one attached to the horn is in better shape

fwiw...I believe you can make those cuts without contracting a repair-guy.
As you know, all you need to do is cut long, and work your way back...plus (as you've shown quite a few times) you have good hand skills.

...and - though redundantly-stated in this thread - I never consider anything's cost (to me) to have anything to do with it's value (to others).
$29 was (primarily) because of the "local pick-up only" (in Boondocks, OK), because (secondarily) most people do not understand the 3-valve compensating system - and just viewed it as a "3-valve" and (tertiarily) because the condition of the valves was unknown.

[LeMark]

this is what I was thinking of. As you know, my daughter decorates cakes. I could remove the bell, put the bell on a level decorating turntable, and turn the bell as I mark it for cutting. I have good tools here and clamps to hold the marking tool steady.

first thing I have to do it get the horn to a repairman to take the wrinkle out. That i do NOT have the tools or the skill to do

[bloke]

this is what I was thinking of. As you know, my daughter decorates cakes. I could remove the bell, put the bell on a level decorating turntable, and turn the bell as I mark it for cutting. I have good tools here and clamps to hold the marking took steady.

Un-solder the female from the lower bell part, clean up the solder, and use it as a pattern. Draw a line on the better part, find the place (just above that) with calipers which is "just right", carefully hand-draw a second line there (above the other line) and (carefully) cut there. You can do all of this in your lap, sitting down.

[bloke]

this is what I was thinking of. As you know, my daughter decorates cakes. I could remove the bell, put the bell on a level decorating turntable, and turn the bell as I mark it for cutting. I have good tools here and clamps to hold the marking took steady.

Un-solder the female from the lower bell part, clean up the solder, and use it as a pattern. Draw a line on the better part, find the place (just above that) with calipers which is "just right", carefully hand-draw a second line there (above the other line) and (carefully) cut there. You can do all of this in your lap, sitting down.

thanks. I was thinking of measuring down from the edge of the bell in 12-20 points around the bell with a fabric measuring tape until I had a full circle around the bell. Something stiffer than a fabric measuring tape that could still bend to the contour of the bell would be perfect

[Jperry1466]

before and after working on the stovepipe. I can get it even better later

[LeMark]

One interesting thing about this project is the upright bell will be 1 inch taller once everything is put back together, because the tenon adds one inch of cylindrical area. That surprises me a bit, but it is what it is. I'm going to have to think about this before I continue.

[2nd tenor]

"just"...

If I gave a crap about the bell, though, I wouldn't...but that's just me.

A 3-valve comp. (with good valves) is a damn-nice instrument with usable (including 1-3, and 1-2-3) range to low E.
As a "band" instrument, I rarely hear ensemble parts (in wind-bands) written lower.

just my opinion, but I believe that institutional/grade-school wind-bands would do much better with far more (completely shelved, other than English-style baritones) 3-valve compensating system low brass instruments, vs. all of the 4-valve non-compensating instruments (which arrive in my shop with frozen/seized/never-used 4th valves)...and this would include (though never - or, possibly: extremely rarely-built) 3-valve compensating contras and sousaphones.

I believe I would trade better-in-tune B and E (on my used-for-high-passages YEP-321) for the of-no-use out-of-tune low E-flat, the serendipitously-usable low D, and no other actually-in-tune very low pitches above the fundamental.

For what it’s worth I’m similarly minded if wary that compensating systems seem to attenuate sound. I’ve come across several people who’ve been long associated with bands that don’t understand that the compensating system on a four valve instrument does nothing useful until the fourth valve is depressed. As a low range extender it is rare for me to actually need the fourth valve whereas the compensation in a three valve system would likely give a lot of value. Though I haven’t got a suitable instrument to try this on I think there’s a lot of merit in simply pulling slides or pressing triggers to keep in tune - simple, light and works, but needs a bit of skill, talk to the 2nd and 3rd Cornets about it.

[York-aholic]

Could you look for a male and female bell tenon from a different horn that is a bit larger diameter? Since it would sit higher up the bell stack, the removable bell would then be shorter to maybe fit as carry on?

Trombone screw on bell pieces perhaps, although those are likely too small. Maybe the same piece you have from a different brand of bell front baritone?

Just a thought.

[LeMark]

The main problem is a larger one would put it on a significantly more conical section, and I'm not even sure where to find one larger. I could have a screw bell tenon made, but that would be way too much money for this project

My original idea, and what will probably have to happen if this project is going to ever going to come to be, is to find another matching Besson bell, cut out a strip of material closer to the logo and use that as a tenon. If course that would mean cutting two bells instead of one.

[York-aholic]

Ah, I've got it! Two sets of male/female tenons/recievers ala Øystein Baadsvik



Oh, wait, never mind. Still have the problem of cutting on a more conical section and finding a larger tenon/receiver.

Sorry...

[LeMark]

I'm not going to use the tenon I bought. It just wont work for a suitcase euph.

I'm going back to my idea of creating a tenon out of a sacrificial bell, and I have both a 5 valve king 2280 and the 3 valve besson. Since besson bells are more desirable, if anyone knows of a king 2280 bell (or a conn 19i) that is available, I'm interested

[York-aholic]

I still haven't found a sacrificial bell for either the king 2280 or the besson, so I have been spending the time fixing up the besson.

Had a pro take out the bell wrinkle and some dents in the leadpipe, and then I spent a while polishing it up and I even re-lacquered it. Took about a whole can, but practice made perfect, and I think if I had to redo it, the next one would be a lot better. It's not bad from a few feet away

here's the before and after

[Tubajug]

Very nice work Mark!

[bloke]

All power to you in this endeavor, but I still don’t quite understand how the square footage (nor bulk) of a case or bag is going to be reduced by removing a euphonium bell, as that square footage that the bell consumes is going to have to go somewhere. The European E-flat guy did manage to get his tuba into a flatter box by having the manufacturer custom build a way for him to take his bell apart into two pieces, instead of one.

[LeMark]

The same way a Sousa case is smaller than a fixed bell helicon case.

The reason a euphonium won't fit into a suitcase is because of length of the bell, if you remove the Bell it will fit similar to a removable Bell French horn.

I did eventually realize that a euphonium with the bell removed still wouldnt got into a carry on bag, so that's why I moved the plan to screw bell baritone instead of a euphonium

[bloke]

I had forgotten that you told me about fitting the bell through an opening in a three valve instrument… Sorry!