for the younger players, who've decided to pursue tuba playing as - at least - a serious hobby

[bloke]

Maybe you've worked very hard on some tryout materials, and have been chosen for your state's "all-state" band.
Possibly, you've auditioned and been accepted into a summer music program, and possibly even received a generous scholarship to defray some or most of the cost of that program.

I saw this piece (offered for free, by the composer) on facebook.

Can you hum, "mind-hum", or whistle this piece - starting on the correct pitch (perhaps getting it off your tuba, off of a keyboard, or from your tuner) and end up on the correct pitch at the end of the piece ?

https://www.syrristgelgota.info/_files/ ... 83d6b5.pdf

If doing so is a struggle (or beyond the scope of what you can currently do), I would strongly encourage you to work on the skill-set involved in being able to imagine (most use the word, "hear") what comes next - when you encounter written music. (Just as with any other type of skill: working a math problem, writing a good paper, serving a tennis ball, debating, or whatever - things may not go so well at first, but improvement comes with trying.
Though it's good to know them, it's not required to know the names of the various intervals. (types of 2nds, 3rd, 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, 7ths, and so on), but for your brain to recognize them and imagine them correctly is the most important thing. (When I was a little bit younger than middle school aged, I began developing these skills, because our little neighborhood garage band needed to learn some songs to play, and the sheet music in the stores - if even available - was rarely correct, and no: I didn't know the proper names for any of the intervals - and nor any of the correct names for the chords.)

To be able to completely imagine what has not yet been played (I would argue) cuts out about 80% (90%...?? more...??) of the practice time that is otherwise required to learn a new piece of music, or a passage.

I dislike very much the snobby attitudes that (thankfully) only a very few musicians - who play for money - assume, but (using a snooty-sounding expression here) "we professionals" often show up for no-rehearsal performances of written-down music that could feature "lots" of notes, and are expected to (not only play nearly every single note correctly, but also) make everything sound like "music" (you know: doing the stuff that doesn't occur to young students, and stuff that band directors must teach during school band rehearsals). Rehearsals are wonderful and beneficial, but - when people play for money - those people also expect to be paid for rehearsals, so (sure!) rehearsals cost money...and there isn't always enough money for any paid rehearsals - only for performances.

GETTING BACK TO THE MAIN POINT...
Time (if it's "lots" of time) required to necessarily "feel out" musical passages - rather than immediately being able to completely imagine how they sound - before playing them - is time that can be otherwise spent working on musical phrasing (again: the subtle / not-marked-in-the-sheet-music ways to make what you play more aurally appealing to others) speed, accuracy, intonation, tone production, or - sure - taking naps. Really young people and really old people (like me) need LOTS of naps.

Here are some other no-charge tuba solos from the same composer's website:

https://www.syrristgelgota.info/tuba-music

If you appreciate the solos, you can thank him, here: syrristgelgota@yahoo.com

[iiipopes]

"To be able to completely imagine what has not yet been played...."

Oh, did that strike a chord (pun intended) with me. A few years ago, to work on my brass chops, I asked to play 4th trumpet in a community jazz band. Since a lot of charts that have trumpet sectional work the 4th part is playing the lead part down an octave for texture, I looked at this as a way to get my ears back in shape for section work of all kinds.

BUT...the bass player left. "Scott - you play bass. Would you play bass for the next concert?" "But...I joined to work on my brass chops and section playing." "Yes, I know, but we need you." "OK." Big mistake. Whether the director dragged his feet finding another bass player I will never know, but it happened again. I told the director he was taking advantage of me and I was not going to come to rehearsals anymore. And I didn't. Then I got a call from the director that they just had to have me for a fall festival concert. That stood the hair up on the back of my head. I said I would play, but I still would not come to any rehearsals. He tried to say something and I cut him off. I said he probably never knew, or if he did, he forgot from whence I came. I told him I could sight read his concert. He said that I couldn't due to the nature of the repertoire on the concert. I said yes I could and I would prove it to him. I did show up properly early on gig day to set up my electric bass, review the charts, and I did just that: I sight read the 45-minute fall festival downtown concert, watching the drummer for the appropriate tempos and cues. The band performance was well received. The director said nothing. I never went back, and that arrogant *** thankfully never called me again, since I showed him up what I could do, and trashed his control issues.

Lesson to everyone else: don't be arrogant. If I had not played everything out there for the last 40+ years at that point, and was of the age I was then, and if I had not been an esteemed graduate of the college where the band rehearsed (the director was not associated with the college in any way and I made sure the dean of the music department knew how badly he treated me), and had the director not been such an arrogant ***, and had my reputation as a player not been secure with everyone else in the area music scene who all knew/know me and what I can do, and had I not grown up with music educators who emphasized sight reading as an indispensible skill along with the mechanics and pedagogy, I could not have gotten by with that.

The point of this episode ties in with Bloke's original post: if you really want to play as an avocation, you still gotta learn your stuff just as if you were a music major planning a performance career, and approach your avocation with the same discipline.

Now to contrast, the folks in my community concert band look forward to the foundation I supply on tuba week-to-week, especially when we sight read new charts. I am pleased to count many of them as friends, including the conductor; they also approach playing the same way, and we all appreciate each other's efforts.

Oh - Bloke - BTW - the link was fun to sight-sing.

[2nd tenor]

My advice to young players who want to play professionally is to consider joining ‘The Forces’ as a ‘Military Musician’. Only a very small percentage of the genuinely gifted manage to get paid to play on a commercial basis and job security isn’t high. In contrast someone with the skills to pass the (rigorous in the UK) audition and selection process to become a Military Musician is assured of many years of reasonable and secure income doing something that they mostly enjoy - not many jobs give that. For many of us music is a hobby, enjoy your hobby but focus on being good at the day job.

[bloke]

non sequitur, but that’s pretty much how these threads go, isn’t it?

I’m probably at least as guilty of only responding to the title of the thread – rather than to what’s written within the first post – as anyone.

[2nd tenor]

non sequitur, but that’s pretty much how these threads go, isn’t it?

I’m probably at least as guilty of only responding to the title of the thread – rather than to what’s written within the first post – as anyone.

Fair point. I’m of the mindset that says you’re almost certainly going to fail to do all that too clever stuff so focus on what you could actually succeed at.

[bloke]

I can’t know if it was really meant that way, but that really doesn’t seem like a particularly optimistic outlook… actually (at least, to me) sort of depressing.

The problem is that if I had kept that paper route that I had in the sixth grade (something at which I knew I could succeed), no one subscribes to newspapers anymore.

[2nd tenor]

Sorry, I really don’t mean to depress. Each year Universities and Conservatoires churn out graduates who ‘fought’ to gain entry to those places and then gave three or more years of their life to gain expertise in a field of work that is already flooded with past graduates. I love playing but the best advice to anyone seriously considering a career in music is to not worry about their current skills but rather, instead, about who is going to pay them for what they can do now and might be able to do later, and the realistic answer is hardly anybody so expect that and plan accordingly.

The local (to me) instrument repair guy died over five years ago, he was an ex-forces musician who turned his hand to instrument repair. I have to travel a distance now and the repair guy that I last used is a Conservatoire graduate (French Horn) who couldn’t get a job in an orchestra; he took a job learning how to repair and build brass instruments and then set-up his own repair shop. He’s one of the best repairers for many miles, but his actual engineering skills aren’t high and what he gained going to the Conservatoire is either lost or of minimal value in what he does for a living - three wasted years at the Conservatoire, loss of income and massive tuition and accommodation bills to pay back … all rather sad, I think. I know an ex-orchestral Trombone player, he ended up playing in an Orchestra Pit and was totally bored out of his mind. That guy now works as a mental health nurse, he doesn’t enjoy the job but the route was open to him and it pays the bills. The value of his hard earned musical expertise is now pretty much zero.

Depressing; some young folk that my children went to school with graduated with distinction but as there was no pool of jobs wanting applicants with their degree they literally ended up flipping Burgers in McDonalds. Music as a career? Well my first post suggests think again - or think differently about your career path - and I hate seeing folk who’ve followed their dreams end up somewhere bad.

[bloke]

My topic is (was, I suppose) "some ways to improve more quickly and with more ease, by strengthening some of the skills that matter the most".

Yours seems (??) to be, "enlist, so you can have three hots and a cot".

again: non sequitorial
I'm not-at-all angry (nor even annoyed), but just being matter-of-fact about what's occurring, here.
I don't even particularly disagree with you, but - simply - it's not the topic that I initiated.

NOTICE:

(I'm actually old enough to remember the T.A. fad. )

[2nd tenor]

My response is fundamentally: if you’re a young player who has decided to pursue tuba playing as - at least - a serious hobby then before you do anything more really question where it’s actually going to lead you too. Simply a word of caution to the young who might want to go on and play professionally, well that expression of caution was what my first response was meant to be and my response was linked to the thread tittle rather than the first post.

It would be good if the thread returned to what you had intended, I had wanted to add no more than a cautionary side bar.

[bloke]

again:

I'm smilin', we're friends, your (seemingly: totally different) topic threw me, but (again) ok...
...and I'm not the thread-czar...
I'm not even the bloke-czar: That's Mrs. bloke's title.

[DonO.]

My advice for young people just starting out in life… goo goo ga ga!

[jtm]

I was pleased when I realized that getting better at recognizing the intervals in printed music not only made it easier to hear the music without playing (like sight singing), but also that transposing and reading different clefs were easier. Sadly, I'm still lousy at reading rhythms, but that's not a serious tuba handicap.

The opening post on this thread was interesting to read after the one a few days earlier about the importance of learning beyond memorization.

[bloke]

The opening post on this thread was interesting to read after the one a few days earlier about the importance of learning beyond memorization.

I'm just sorta tired of posts about instrument models, mouthpieces, cases, bags, oils, tuba-carrying cars, and trailers.

[Mary Ann]

I have no trouble hearing that in my head, but singing in that range is impossible. And I am a stellar sight reader. Totally consternated my horn teacher, who could not figure out how I got the pitches right with my beginning atrocious technique and total lack of correct embouchure. Ability to hear what is supposed to happen is one skill, and being able to do it and produce physical music is another.

[bloke]

I have no trouble hearing that in my head, but singing in that range is impossible. And I am a stellar sight reader. Totally consternated my horn teacher, who could not figure out how I got the pitches right with my beginning atrocious technique and total lack of correct embouchure. Ability to hear what is supposed to happen is one skill, and being able to do it and produce physical music is another.

As (per my point) it speeds up learning to master an instrument (certainly up to the "pretty good" point) geometrically...agreed?

saxophone customers, sometimes:

How do you get such a good sound on the fill-in-the-blank-size saxophone?
------------------------
1/ It's really easy to produce a sound on saxophones.
2/ I've been play-testing them (and messing around with them) for nearly 45 years.
3/ When we've bought used instruments to flip, we've saved by the VERY BEST mouthpieces that - per chance - were in the cases with some of them.
4/ I know how it's supposed to sound.

TO THE ORIGINAL POST:
It's a bit like KNOWING what 7 X 12 or 13 + 23 is, or having to punch stuff like that into a calculator every time.

[iiipopes]

Another anecdote to show the importance of being able to sight read and take dictation - ear training, even if it is avocation and not vocation: yes, as part of undergrad theory class I was supposed to go to listening lab. Oh,...if there is anything more boring, please tell me: "minor second - beep, beep; major second - beep, beep," etc. I blew it off. My professor called me into his office mid way through the semester. "Scott, I don't see where you have been to listening lab. You know that is a requirement." "Professor, you know I am not a music major. I am going to law school. But I wanted to learn music theory, so I took the class. I've had all of that listening lab in high school. I'll tell you what: if I miss even so much as one sub part of one exercise on a dictation test, I'll resume going to listening lab. So long as I make perfect scores on each of the Friday weekly dictation tests, I don't have to go - deal?" He agreed. I never had to go back to listening lab.

[bloke]

Another anecdote to show the importance of being able to sight read and take dictation - ear training, even if it is avocation and not vocation: yes, as part of undergrad theory class I was supposed to go to listening lab. Oh,...if there is anything more boring, please tell me: "minor second - beep, beep; major second - beep, beep," etc. I blew it off. My professor called me into his office mid way through the semester. "Scott, I don't see where you have been to listening lab. You know that is a requirement." "Professor, you know I am not a music major. I am going to law school. But I wanted to learn music theory, so I took the class. I've had all of that listening lab in high school. I'll tell you what: if I miss even so much as one sub part of one exercise on a dictation test, I'll resume going to listening lab. So long as I make perfect scores on each of the Friday weekly dictation tests, I don't have to go - deal?" He agreed. I never had to go back to listening lab.

That mess was boring.
Again: Having pulled changes/bass lines/keyboard parts/guitar solos/vocal melodies/vocal harmonies/drum fills off (not even tapes that could be paused, but) 45's and LP's since I was in grade school, that "OK class, here's a slow-as-crap chorale that I'm going to play twenty friggin' times...See if you can write down the soprano line" crap was a mountainous waste of my time. I would write out the SATB the first time through, and then draw a cartoon of the 'fesser (for their amusement, as they had a good sense of humor).
FURTHER, the stuff that they attempt to teach people (who've never tried to do that stuff before) in a CLASSROOM with "homework" for "a semester or two"...That's going to fail nearly every time it's tried (at least, in my estimation). The ONLY way to develop those skill sets is to pursue them INDIVIDUALLY and CONTINUOUSLY. (Compare THIS skill set to when someone asks, "Can you teach me how to play over chord changes? There's a 'trick' to it, right?" (sheesh )

Beyond my "kiddie garage band" years, I noticed (barely into high school) that many girls seemed to really like Simon and Garfunkel. This tune - I could just play through it and let them sing the lyrics...you know: GIRLS
(After all, it obviously worked for a funny-lookin' little guy and another guy with weird hair, so...)

I checked this one out of the library, and learned it in an hour...The catchy little intro (again: no cassette deck) took me about twenty minutes (ten minutes for the notes, and the other ten to find it on the guitar neck and smooth it out), and the rest of it (the typical steel-string dreadnaught-guitar quasi-Alberti-bass thing) ate up the rest of the time (stealing it off the l.p. and then smoothing out the pattern and the changes). As I've said before, I was mostly a nylon-string player, but I had an Epiphone dreadnaught (as they were only $90, compared to what a Gibson would have cost).



bloke "I did not own a bass harmonica, so that part was omitted."

[arpthark]

FURTHER, the stuff that they attempt to teach people (who've never tried to do that stuff before) in a CLASSROOM with "homework" for "a semester or two"...That's going to fail nearly every time it's tried (at least, in my estimation). The ONLY way to develop those skill sets is to pursue them INDIVIDUALLY and CONTINUOUSLY. (Compare THIS skill set to when someone asks, "Can you teach me how to play over chord changes? There's a 'trick' to it, right?" (sheesh )

I taught music theory at universities for about five years. I got a surprising amount of pushback from certain faculty when trying to make these listening/live transcription assignments more engaging. The way aural skills in music theory are taught at certain places is very sterile and practically useless in a real musical setting when these skills would actually be required.

[iiipopes]

The ONLY way to develop those skill sets is to pursue them INDIVIDUALLY and CONTINUOUSLY. (Compare THIS skill set to when someone asks, "Can you teach me how to play over chord changes? There's a 'trick' to it, right?" (sheesh )

This one sentence probably sums up the rest of the thread, because it is the answer to the question, "Just how badly do you want to play well." Thanks.