Need Trombone assist

[MN_TimTuba]

The trombone player in our Dixieland band passed away this summer, his daughter very kindly said his family wanted me to have his instrument. I just picked it up in Fargo.
It's an FE Olds & Son, Fullerton, Calif. Appears to be marked O-R 5, but I'm not positive on the R. Appears to be a larger bore tenor w F attachment, 8.5 inch bell. The bell might be rose brass; It's a darker color than the yellow brass on the slide, and the F tubing seems all nickled. Serial number is 856XXX. Has a Bach 5G mouthpiece. Is that generally a suitable MP?
Since he died of cancer, and had Covid and almost everything else, I'm not putting it to my lips until it's been chemically cleaned.
Any of you have first hand experience with this model? Other insights? Mouthpiece suggestions?
Thanks for whatever you have to share.
Tim

[bone-a-phone]

Probably an Olds O25 Opera. Nice horns. Usually undervalued, but great players. The 5g should be good for your average large bore bone player. A tuba player might want something larger. A 3g would probably respond well, although be careful, the receivers on Olds are sometimes undersized. I use custom Doug Elliott shanks to fit my Olds Recording small tenor and Olds S20 and P24g basses I used to own.

The Operas (all Olds really) were very solid and well made trombones. I think the Operas were mostly late 70s horns. They have a bit of a cult following. Which is to say that not everybody loves them. The people who play them see the attraction, but some people don't get past the name. Most of the Olds models were unique. You don't see other makers with nickel silver and red brass horns in the lineup. Because they were different they got an undeserved reputation for being old fashioned or out of date.

In their hayday (~1930s-1970s), they were probably the best designed and built brass instruments in the US.

There was a thread about the closely related O23 recently on trombone Chat.

https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=27685#p185413

[MN_TimTuba]

Yes, that R could be a 2, or even an A. The finished is a little pitted here and there.
Thank you.
Tim

[bloke]

There are always exceptions to everything.

Opera takes a large shank mpc, and usually was ALL nickel silver.

Recording is gold brass and nickel silver, takes a small shank mouthpiece, but features an over-eight-inch bell. Engraving - on Recording - was intricate.

Either should be well-identified on the bell.

5G is mostly made in large shank, but not always.

Often Recording model inside slide tubes are fluted, but not always.

I wouldn’t worry about playing it, but moot.

[bone-a-phone]

There are always exceptions to everything.

Opera takes a large shank mpc, and usually was ALL nickel silver.

Recording is gold brass and nickel silver, takes a small shank mouthpiece, but features an over-eight-inch bell. Engraving - on Recording - was intricate.

Either should be well-identified on the bell.

5G is mostly made in large shank, but not always.

Often Recording model inside slide tubes are fluted, but not always.

I wouldn’t worry about playing it, but moot.

If you read the tbone link I posted , the opera came with nickel, red and yellow brass bell options.

The Recording w/f (R20) had an 8.5" bell, but the straight (no f att R15) was just an 8" bell.

5g is large shank, but there is a 5 that's small shank.

The real Olds trombone expert is JohnL on trombone Chat, and he has a site with a lot of info - http://www.itsabear.com/

[bloke]

If you reread my post, you’ll see that >>> we agree on just about everything <<< except the fact that Bach actually will sell/has sold a 5G with a small shank. I used to own one.
Yes, Opera was offered in that other metal (the same type of metal used in Recording and Super), but so very many of them were ordered in nickel silver because it was - well... - silver colored…the same (real) reason that people overwhelmingly chose and choose Conn model 8D double horns over model 28D… and choose model 179 Holton double horns over model 180 (again: silver colored).
Towards the end, Olds offered a silver PLATED over plain yellow brass - and NON-fluted inside playing slide tubes (sort of budget but not less expensive) version of the Recording model trombone called “Super Star”. They came out with all sorts of stuff near the end…perhaps throwing all sorts of things against the wall to see if anything stuck. (‘ anyone else remember the Olds Pinto - interchangeable pistons - trumpet, with plastic clad casings?)
PINTO trumpet:
https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/ ... kw1icf.jpg
It was a shame that they went out of business, as they were probably the highest-quality American manufacturer ever. To me, some of their most most fascinating instruments, though, were made in the original Los Angeles plant… I wish I had a tuba with that hammered finish that they used on one of their trombones and one of their trumpets.
I'm pretty sure that (other than Carl Geyer himself) Olds was the first brass manufacturer to offer a Geyer-wrap double horn.

[ParLawGod]

I'm very sorry to hear about your friend's passing. It's always great when someone's horn ends up in the hands of someone who appreciates it.

Those Olds O-25 horns have a .554 bore, so slightly larger than the now standard .547

I've owned quite a few Olds small bore trombones (Ambassador, Special, Studio, and Recording), but never an Opera. I did get to play on one once, fun horn! Two things I've always struggled with when playing Olds trombones are the unique third position (could never get the "muscle memory" down), and the odd mouthpiece shank. Always had a tough time finding a mouthpiece that was a decent fit...I always kept an Olds 3 small shank around for that very reason. GOOD mouthpiece, but never GREAT.

The 5G is a great starting point for large shank mouthpieces. Going larger is pretty common...going smaller on a large bore trombone doesn't always lead to a full/characteristic sound (just my opinion).

[bloke]

Olds never was conformist and never a copycat.
The .554" bore was also the SMALL SIDE bore size on their (preceding the Olds Opera model by at least two decades) dual-bore bass trombones...which completely explains WHY the Opera model was that bore size: "because they already had the rod and draw ring for that size".
I have a good-condition (will be in better condition later) Olds dual-bore TUNING-IN-SLIDE (as with the 6XH Conn bass trombones, as well as the venerable/ancient 70H) bass trombone slide that I'm going to be pairing with a Yamaha 322 (yellow brass, early Yamaha knock-off of Conn 72H) bell section. (Playing pre-tests have been very promising...ie. if an old bloke can get a good sound and good tuning, then someone ACTUALLY good CERTAINLY ought to be able.)

The COMMON large bore tenor and bass sizes are actually SAE sizes:
35/64" = .547"
36/64 = .562"

.554"...??
I ain't got a clue.
…UNLESS the OUTSIDE diameter might be right at 37/64 (??)

[arpthark]

Olds Pinto

I heard if you dropped them on their rear ends, they would explode.

[bloke]

75 hp and 25 mpg (city)
I'd gladly take it, though I'd prefer not such an attention-getting color.
(I avoid Biden, cannabis, and coexist bumper stickers on my work van - for the same reason.)

Olds Pinto

I heard if you dropped them on their rear ends, they would explode.