Miraphone F tuba update
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- bort2.0
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Miraphone F tuba update
I finally got to spend about an hour with my Miraphone F tuba today. I brought it with me when I dropped off the kids from camp, and drove to a local trailhead parking lot and sat around there and played. A few people walked by on the street and didn't say anything. When I was wrapping up, one lady stopped by and asked if that was my normal practice spot (I'd never been there before) and she told me it sounded great -- she's a string bass player. Small world sometimes.
Some random observations:
* First, I need to practice outside more often. I thought it was a lot of fun, and nice to hear the tuba in a non-resonant environment.
* There was a rattling/buzzing sound that drove me NUTS. I couldn't figure it out, then started to get annoyed about taking it in to find a busted solder joint or something... then I realized it has the lyre holder, and the screw was loose. I promptly removed the screw, and never heard a buzz again.
* Confirmed that yes, the 5th valve circuit is the same length as the 4th. No slide pulling made it significantly more or less in any direction.
* That said, the double 4th valve setup actually works quite well! As a person who hasn't played F tuba all that much, I have no old habits or automaticity to unlearn, and I'm sure that's big for me. I didn't READ any music, just scales and playing things from memory or by ear. For me, starting in that range (the open F) feels very natural to me. Especially going into the low range and downwards, it just seems like the fingering patterns are pretty easy and natural, using the 4th and 5th valves for low stuff. I'll have to work out a fingering chart, but for an hour of face time on the horn, it was pretty much just "here's your 5th valve, learn how to use it or don't. But this is what it is." And when you just handle it like that, you'll do just fine with what you've got.
* Sound -- great projection, very clear and colorful, and speaks very easily. Presence but CLARITY! A really sweet and nice sounding tuba.
* With a large mouthpiece, this is PLENTY of sound, and maybe can be enough to get by (or better) in many situations. Physically, it's a similar height/bell/bore as a 184 or 185, just smaller bows and branches. With the .768 bore, so it can handle a good amount of air and output.
* Intonation is pretty good. I didn't expect it to be perfect, and it's not. But that's okay, and it's been easily workable without any real weirdness. Especially in the low range, things just seem to line up pretty well.
* Low C, B, and Bb are good. I've never been one to complain about this stuff, and on my relatively small time on F tubas, I've never taken more than a few minutes to learn the whole "do this to make it sound like that"
It's a lot of fun. I want to take it to orchestra rehearsal in September (rep list not available yet), but as long as there's nothing seismic or technical below the staff, it should be enough tuba sound as-is. Even if so, I'm wondering if I can make this tuba do what I need it to do.
The huge Rudy is a different kind of fun, but I'm seriously wondering if output, clarity, and projection would be just as beneficial for me to do my role as covering the tuba part in the orchestra. It's not a HUGE orchestra, but the Rudy was appropriate for it. The F will obviously have a different depth of sound, but also a different level of effort and control, and physically less demanding (obviously) for me to haul it around. Also, I love the sound of a bass tuba in an orchestra when it's done well. I guess that's my challenge!
Some random observations:
* First, I need to practice outside more often. I thought it was a lot of fun, and nice to hear the tuba in a non-resonant environment.
* There was a rattling/buzzing sound that drove me NUTS. I couldn't figure it out, then started to get annoyed about taking it in to find a busted solder joint or something... then I realized it has the lyre holder, and the screw was loose. I promptly removed the screw, and never heard a buzz again.
* Confirmed that yes, the 5th valve circuit is the same length as the 4th. No slide pulling made it significantly more or less in any direction.
* That said, the double 4th valve setup actually works quite well! As a person who hasn't played F tuba all that much, I have no old habits or automaticity to unlearn, and I'm sure that's big for me. I didn't READ any music, just scales and playing things from memory or by ear. For me, starting in that range (the open F) feels very natural to me. Especially going into the low range and downwards, it just seems like the fingering patterns are pretty easy and natural, using the 4th and 5th valves for low stuff. I'll have to work out a fingering chart, but for an hour of face time on the horn, it was pretty much just "here's your 5th valve, learn how to use it or don't. But this is what it is." And when you just handle it like that, you'll do just fine with what you've got.
* Sound -- great projection, very clear and colorful, and speaks very easily. Presence but CLARITY! A really sweet and nice sounding tuba.
* With a large mouthpiece, this is PLENTY of sound, and maybe can be enough to get by (or better) in many situations. Physically, it's a similar height/bell/bore as a 184 or 185, just smaller bows and branches. With the .768 bore, so it can handle a good amount of air and output.
* Intonation is pretty good. I didn't expect it to be perfect, and it's not. But that's okay, and it's been easily workable without any real weirdness. Especially in the low range, things just seem to line up pretty well.
* Low C, B, and Bb are good. I've never been one to complain about this stuff, and on my relatively small time on F tubas, I've never taken more than a few minutes to learn the whole "do this to make it sound like that"
It's a lot of fun. I want to take it to orchestra rehearsal in September (rep list not available yet), but as long as there's nothing seismic or technical below the staff, it should be enough tuba sound as-is. Even if so, I'm wondering if I can make this tuba do what I need it to do.
The huge Rudy is a different kind of fun, but I'm seriously wondering if output, clarity, and projection would be just as beneficial for me to do my role as covering the tuba part in the orchestra. It's not a HUGE orchestra, but the Rudy was appropriate for it. The F will obviously have a different depth of sound, but also a different level of effort and control, and physically less demanding (obviously) for me to haul it around. Also, I love the sound of a bass tuba in an orchestra when it's done well. I guess that's my challenge!
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- prairieboy1 (Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:39 pm)
- bloke
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Re: Miraphone F tuba update
Outdoor practice will get you playing louder, but I also noticed - when I did a bit of it several decades ago - that is pretty easy to play too loud outdoors all the time.
I knew a horn player who practiced outdoors all the time and - in his horn section in his orchestra - he was always too loud, as well as in solo recitals…
…so I see it as a good thing, but there can be too much of it - just as with other good things.
Something else about playing the tuba outdoors in this post-Orwellian era: The long sine waves carry very far, and - even if you are extremely isolated to where you don’t think anyone can possibly hear you – someone probably can, and they might be someone who might be inclined to rob you: wallet/car/tuba/life
I knew a horn player who practiced outdoors all the time and - in his horn section in his orchestra - he was always too loud, as well as in solo recitals…
…so I see it as a good thing, but there can be too much of it - just as with other good things.
Something else about playing the tuba outdoors in this post-Orwellian era: The long sine waves carry very far, and - even if you are extremely isolated to where you don’t think anyone can possibly hear you – someone probably can, and they might be someone who might be inclined to rob you: wallet/car/tuba/life
- bort2.0
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Re: Miraphone F tuba update
At least this tuba is too small for them to stuff my corpse into it/the gig bag. Where do you think I live/go?!
- These users thanked the author bort2.0 for the post (total 3):
- jtm (Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:22 pm) • MN_TimTuba (Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:52 pm) • djwpe (Tue Aug 23, 2022 9:29 pm)
- arpthark
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Re: Miraphone F tuba update
When you are ready to sell it in 3 months, please let me know.
Blake
Bean Hill Brass
Bean Hill Brass
- bloke
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Re: Miraphone F tuba update
You can have at it.
me...??
I'm only looking for F tubas with a 22mm-or-larger bore size.
- matt g
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Re: Miraphone F tuba update
Maybe that double 4th setup yields a decent low Ab 4+5? Still a somewhat confusing chart to make since there’s redundancy.
I guess you could also set up one for a “4+2” deal where it’s flat. That should also help with the 4+5 Ab.
Interesting.
I guess you could also set up one for a “4+2” deal where it’s flat. That should also help with the 4+5 Ab.
Interesting.
Dillon/Walters CC (sold)
Meinl-Weston 2165 (sold)
Meinl-Weston 2165 (sold)
- bort2.0
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Re: Miraphone F tuba update
Hey now... I have to wait 3 months?!
- bloke
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Re: Miraphone F tuba update
I'm offering a trade for converting the 5th valve to a more common circuit length:
I do the conversion in exchange for you giving me the instrument.
I do the conversion in exchange for you giving me the instrument.
- arpthark
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Re: Miraphone F tuba update
It's clear from the engraving photo that this was meant for the Australian market.
Blake
Bean Hill Brass
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Re: Miraphone F tuba update
What do you get with all the valves down, like an E or something? You should play The Planets and Rite of Spring on it!
- bloke
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Re: Miraphone F tuba update
candid admission:
I change underwear a couple of times daily (or more, if doing work out on the property), but I change/wash my work jeans (unless some some unfortunate chemical spill, or remarkably dirty with ACTUAL outdoor dirt) every couple of weeks. By then (with all of the oil/grease/buffing compound/etc.) they're nearly standing up on their own, but
- Washing clothes all the time wears them out
- It's just "me"...working in the shop by myself
- I don't really perspire in my work jeans, as I run the air full blast in the summer and only heat the room to c. 60 degrees in the winter.
This instrument:
Don't count on me to be one of its next owners.
- MN_TimTuba
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Re: Miraphone F tuba update
Tuba Forum Truism - Guy starts thread to say he's having fun with his new tuba; within the first page we're talking about our underwear.
FWIW, I've never even once played a bass tuba, but I have a strong hankerin' to do so. Thanks for showin' the horn porn, Brett - it's a beauty!
Tim
FWIW, I've never even once played a bass tuba, but I have a strong hankerin' to do so. Thanks for showin' the horn porn, Brett - it's a beauty!
Tim
MN_Tim
Lee Stofer Custom 2341-5
Miraphone 83 Eb
Miraphone 191-5 (formerly)
Holton BBb345 (formerly and fondly)
Lee Stofer Custom 2341-5
Miraphone 83 Eb
Miraphone 191-5 (formerly)
Holton BBb345 (formerly and fondly)
- bort2.0
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Re: Miraphone F tuba update
@Bob Kolada -- I actually didn't try all 5 valves, but will see what that gives me. I'm too tired to count how many half steps that is right now.
@arpthark, you are #3 in line (not making that up )
@bloke, I'm not sure you've ever wanted any of the tubas I've owned before.
@tofu, tubas are pretty much the only thing in my life that I switch up with any frequency. But really, why not? It's fun, I'm pretty good at it, and I can buy/sell/trade a lot more often than I can actually pick up the tuba and play it. I used to live near BBC, the USABTEC, and close enough to Dillon Music to try a lot of things before making a purchase. These days... I just have to buy first. I don't buy junk, and I don't overpay. And like Joe, I try to sell at a fair but "it's not going to last very long" price.
@MN_TimTuba, I've got this and the Martin Eb, come try them both!
@arpthark, you are #3 in line (not making that up )
@bloke, I'm not sure you've ever wanted any of the tubas I've owned before.
@tofu, tubas are pretty much the only thing in my life that I switch up with any frequency. But really, why not? It's fun, I'm pretty good at it, and I can buy/sell/trade a lot more often than I can actually pick up the tuba and play it. I used to live near BBC, the USABTEC, and close enough to Dillon Music to try a lot of things before making a purchase. These days... I just have to buy first. I don't buy junk, and I don't overpay. And like Joe, I try to sell at a fair but "it's not going to last very long" price.
@MN_TimTuba, I've got this and the Martin Eb, come try them both!
- These users thanked the author bort2.0 for the post (total 2):
- MN_TimTuba (Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:32 pm) • arpthark (Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:49 am)
- bloke
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Re: Miraphone F tuba update
SUBTOPIC: one model that bort2.0 and bloke actually both owned...
had a fancy/handmade/factory-customized "Anniversary Model" (80:20 brass, with all-nickel silver valveset and mouthpipe tube) 188 - back in the '80's (one of the few tubas that I ever bought brand-new).
The Mirafone USA people admitted to me that the person - for whom it was made - played it and turned it down...Often - when other people claim an instrument is a "dog", there's actually some other dynamic involved...but this one WAS a "dog", and I strongly suspect I know (in California, at that time) for whom it was intended.
It featured a left-hand 5th valve (which was already not standard, anymore) and also a left thumb (folded up for storage) left thumb 5th slide trigger.
(For some of us, this set-up immediately brings one player to mind.)
The sound was dull/throaty (seemed to be "stuck down in the bell"), and the second rotor intermittently hung (made off-center - a fluke - which I eventually had to give up on and replace).
They offered it to me for several hundred dollars (back when "hundreds" was REAL money) LESS than the dealer price for the regular yellow brass version. I suspect I would have kept a 188 for quite a few more years, had I just bought a regular new (1980's/hand-made) one. At that time, I was so ignorant, that - in the back of my mind - I was thinking that I should try to figure out a way to buy one of those (intonation nightmares) "Rolls Royce" tubas.
All of that having been said, it did get me into the final round (three of us, PLUS the person who had anointed for the job who only auditioned in the final round - one of those "follow-the-union rules" requisite/b.s. auditions) of a national audition...but - re: the parentheses - I guess making it into the final round of a sham audition really doesn't "count", does it?
I did eventually buy one of those (used, in new condition), and sold it (thankfully) sold it (for $1000 more) a year later - and good riddance. All of that having been said, that "Rolls Royce" (though epically problematic) was not actually the worst tuba I ever bought...as that one (which will remained completely unnamed - yet another beloved-by-many German-make tuba...and bort2.0 has owned one of these, as well) was acquired between the 188 "Anniversary dog", and the "Rolls Royce". That worst one ever owned: I did manage to get into a final (not just semi) round at one of those various SA, TX auditions (I'm thinking, the first one...I didn't sign up for any of the subsequent ones) - using that thing, but with all sorts of bat-sh!t-crazy fingerings and other work-arounds (That tuba did NOT offer a reliable C-sharp nor D (above middle C) at all - no way/no how.)
had a fancy/handmade/factory-customized "Anniversary Model" (80:20 brass, with all-nickel silver valveset and mouthpipe tube) 188 - back in the '80's (one of the few tubas that I ever bought brand-new).
The Mirafone USA people admitted to me that the person - for whom it was made - played it and turned it down...Often - when other people claim an instrument is a "dog", there's actually some other dynamic involved...but this one WAS a "dog", and I strongly suspect I know (in California, at that time) for whom it was intended.
It featured a left-hand 5th valve (which was already not standard, anymore) and also a left thumb (folded up for storage) left thumb 5th slide trigger.
(For some of us, this set-up immediately brings one player to mind.)
The sound was dull/throaty (seemed to be "stuck down in the bell"), and the second rotor intermittently hung (made off-center - a fluke - which I eventually had to give up on and replace).
They offered it to me for several hundred dollars (back when "hundreds" was REAL money) LESS than the dealer price for the regular yellow brass version. I suspect I would have kept a 188 for quite a few more years, had I just bought a regular new (1980's/hand-made) one. At that time, I was so ignorant, that - in the back of my mind - I was thinking that I should try to figure out a way to buy one of those (intonation nightmares) "Rolls Royce" tubas.
All of that having been said, it did get me into the final round (three of us, PLUS the person who had anointed for the job who only auditioned in the final round - one of those "follow-the-union rules" requisite/b.s. auditions) of a national audition...but - re: the parentheses - I guess making it into the final round of a sham audition really doesn't "count", does it?
I did eventually buy one of those (used, in new condition), and sold it (thankfully) sold it (for $1000 more) a year later - and good riddance. All of that having been said, that "Rolls Royce" (though epically problematic) was not actually the worst tuba I ever bought...as that one (which will remained completely unnamed - yet another beloved-by-many German-make tuba...and bort2.0 has owned one of these, as well) was acquired between the 188 "Anniversary dog", and the "Rolls Royce". That worst one ever owned: I did manage to get into a final (not just semi) round at one of those various SA, TX auditions (I'm thinking, the first one...I didn't sign up for any of the subsequent ones) - using that thing, but with all sorts of bat-sh!t-crazy fingerings and other work-arounds (That tuba did NOT offer a reliable C-sharp nor D (above middle C) at all - no way/no how.)
- bort2.0
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Re: Miraphone F tuba update
Clearly, your issue is that all those tubas had only one fourth valve.
- arpthark
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