Interesting new big Eb tuba

[bloke]

Been seeing this on the social medias…



Here’s the company website:

https://hsmusical.com.br/instrumentos.html#

I’m guessing these are Chinese made instruments. Nonetheless, they don’t look like other brands I’ve seen, unless I’m just missing something.

[bloke]

Apparently, what became of Weril - when it was sold in Brazil.

The fact that nothing is nickel silver is trademark Brazilian… as well as the website address suffix, and the Portuguese.

(I’m pretty sure that any nickel used for manufacturing has to be imported into South America.)

Tell me if I’m wrong:
Just as with many century-old oversized American E-flat tubas – and some of the modern era oversized F tubas, the second partial pitches sound flat.

[peterbas]

.

[donn]

He says they're planning an F tuba, also.

[bloke]

Seems not so.

Brazil has estimated reserves of 16 million tonnes of nickel and is currently the world’s eighth largest producer, with output of 100,000 tonnes in 2021.

Thanks.

The previous owner of Weril - in an email conversation - mentioned that "nickel [nickel-brass] tubing is expensive here", and obviously I assumed to much.

Even their INSIDE (chrome-plated) playing slide tubes (on their upper model trombones) were YELLOW BRASS base metal, which is very "budget".
(King tried this - with their student model trombones - a few decades ago, and it was a disaster.)

The only nickel I ever found on their instruments was nickel PLATING (on places such as caps, buttons, and - not particularly generous - pistons).
They did nickel plate their silver sousaphones (typical polishing/labor-saving shortcut) underneath the silver...which defines a not-the-best bond for the silver.

throwaway comment:
Other than the valveset configuration (which is more identified with Europe-made tubas than an isolated pair of very old USA-made tubas), the all-brass and diamond-flange (I believe I'm seeing...??) bracing look very "old North American Midwestern".

[LargeTuba]

This actually looks really cool! I think I’d rather have this one than the new Wessex 6/4 Eb.

The cost is $7,158 USD, which is more than I’m liking to pay.


Btw this is weril, their website includes many past weril models including the Brazil-Nirschl 4/4 CC.

[bloke]

They're under new ownership, and in a rebuilding mode (APPARENTLY).

A while back, I failed to get someone to talk intelligently to me re: replacement parts for their MOST BASIC model (a knock-off of a Yamaha 105) - EVEN THOUGH I communicated in Portuguese, and got someone else to double-check my google-done translation, prior to sending it. (I have a niece who is one of AutoZone's veeps, and is fluent in that family of languages... ' actually supervises ALL of of the Brazil AutoZones).

[UncleBeer]

Why a tall bell Eb? Seems more practical to wrap it more tightly. Kinda like this:

Tubby.jpg (45.39 KiB) Viewed 1857 times

[bloke]

or why front-action...??



only poking a bit of good-natured fun...and wouldn't, unless I knew those being poked will accept it with a smile and a chuckle.

[LargeTuba]

Why a tall bell Eb? Seems more practical to wrap it more tightly. Kinda like this:


Tubby.jpg

I kinda like the tallbell. The Wessex seems like I’m gonna hit my head on the bell, or look like the hunchback of Notredame playing it

[bloke]

Why a tall bell Eb? Seems more practical to wrap it more tightly. Kinda like this:


Tubby.jpg

I kinda like the tallbell. The Wessex seems like I’m gonna hit my head on the bell, or look like the hunchback of Notredame playing it

Other than being an E-flat, the profile of Unc’s looks like it might be identical to my B-flat.
As long as the bell clears my head, I’m fine with it… and like a hard case it’s only 3 feet long for my 32 inch tall tuba with a 19 inch bell, and 190 ear-shattering dB of KA-POW !!!

[UncleBeer]

only poking a bit of good-natured fun...and wouldn't, unless I knew those being poked will accept it with a smile and a chuckle.

I can take it, Joe!

As long as the bell clears my head, I’m fine with it… and like a hard case it’s only 3 feet long for my 32 inch tall tuba with a 19 inch bell

I learned to play on a 5v 186 (back before York-o-phones became 'the rage'), and it always kinda irked me that half the height of those horns are just . . . bell. C'mon Miraphone: just wrap those up tighter! Acoustics say the column of air doesn't care where the bends are in the least.

Going back to a tall-bell instrument after all these years even briefly gives my a very detached feeling: "Who's that playing?" Not my cup o' tea (any more).

[bloke]

A person probably tends to play louder - the less they can hear themselves.
Recording bell playing requires the biggest adjustment for me.
This house’s attic is only over the very large carport, and most of the rest of the ceilingss are 45° angle wood ceilings (below the roof only the thickness of the rafters) and way the heck up there, so - practicing at home - I can hear most any type of tuba pretty well.
Even though there is a “tuba room“, my wife is bugging me because all of them are currently out of their wall hanging locations and sitting on their bells together… all shapes, sizes, heights, and configurations… My main requirement for a tuba (to be considered my own) is “good”.

[Yorkboy]

Why a tall bell Eb? Seems more practical to wrap it more tightly. Kinda like this:


Tubby.jpg

I kinda like the tallbell. The Wessex seems like I’m gonna hit my head on the bell, or look like the hunchback of Notredame playing it

Other than being an E-flat, the profile of Unc’s looks like it might be identical to my B-flat.
As long as the bell clears my head, I’m fine with it… and like a hard case it’s only 3 feet long for my 32 inch tall tuba with a 19 inch bell, and 190 ear-shattering dB of KA-POW !!!

Kind looks like the horn project that I’m in right now:

9E588754-B24F-4B18-926F-6FCECA885AE2.jpeg (111.53 KiB) Viewed 1748 times

(hoping to find some time in the near future to get it done….)

[bloke]

My personal E-flat is not the worlds greatest E-flat, but it is a great E-flat:
- Rare 1958 detachable recording bell model with 22-inch recording bell
- Besson 3+1compensating - fully chromatic, and plays pretty nicely in tune
- auxiliary 19 inch upright bell
———-
Because these instruments were wrapped a little bit differently from the fixed bell versions, when the straight bell is on it, it’s very close to the same height as an old detachable-bell King.
I use the recording bell in large rooms with relatively low ceilings – such as lower level large rooms in country clubs - where Sunday brunches are typically served (these rooms dating back to pre-air conditioning days). I also use the recording bell to play sit-down jazz band jobs outdoors.
I stick the upright bell on it when I’m actually playing with some sort of jazz band in an actual acoustical type of room design for listening to music.
In my house, people tell me the two bells sound about the same - depending on where they’re standing, but – at gig sites – I’ve had other musicians (familiar with that instrument and it’s two bells) tell me that I should’ve brought the other bell, because of blah, blah-blah, or blah-blah-blah - most of which I take to heart, and consider when grabbing that instrument for a gig.
———-
large-bell E-flat tubas:
I’ve never used them for anything other than “fake B-flat“ tubas… constantly playing on every song, and asked to play a lot of choruses. They cut down on the level of energy required by about a third (compared to 4/4 and larger B-flats), and get me through three-hour jobs without having to take a nap afterward…well (again) as long as they are good instruments, as is this old Besson. (Most of them - that I’ve tried or owned - feature quite a few tuning problems. The Besson will remain here. )

large-bell E-flats:
I have no idea why anyone would play one of those in a British style brass band to play the “upper“ tuba parts (unless, of course, that’s what they had - which is the BEST reason to use any particular tuba at any particular type of place to play any particular type of music). The bells make them sound just a thick/full/rich as the B-flats. The only currently-made instrument that’s truly appropriate – arguably – is the Yamaha YEB–321, which is basically a budget/non-compensating copy of the 1960s-and-earlier Besson/B&H 15-inch bell instruments. A REALLY silly thing would be for the E-flat players - in a British brass band - to be playing 19-inch bell E-flats with the B-flat players playing older traditional 17-inch bell English-made B-flats.

[UncleBeer]

Other than being an E-flat, the profile of Unc’s looks like it might be identical to my B-flat.

I actually have a devious plan to use this bell, bottom bow and valve set to cobble together 4/4 CC and BBb versions. We'll see what comes of it.

[LargeTuba]

Id be curious to know what a York/holton/king 4/4 tuba sounds/plays like with a .750” valve section.

[groovlow]

Hey Joe, the horn you’re working on is it Eb or F? Looks like a short second valve to me.
Joe H

[edfirth]

They had a set of five .750 bore piston Kings at the West Point band when I was there.I played one of them for about a year and it, for lack of a better description, had the timbre that I'd been listening to on those old Red Seal recordings of the Chicago symphony.and hadn't been able to make on any of the horns that I'd tried. If I could've purchased it at any price I would have. They got sent to the crusher right after I split. Mark Jones posted a picture of them on the laps of five bandsmen, probably when they were new, on here a few years ago. They had a longer valve stroke than the one 1241 that the band also had. On the big Eb, I like the taller bell and have found that the taller horns project better than the shorties. For playing here in my house though, I'll take the squatty every time since projection isn't an issue. To my ear the difference between a King 1241 two piece and a newer 2341 is like a trumpet versus a herald trumpet although to a lesser degree. And I base this observation on recordings made from out in the house. Not under my chair or one of the trombone player's chairs. For what it's worth. Ed

[edfirth]

done