Purchasing used Sousa for a high school band

Tubas, euphoniums, mouthpieces, and anything music-related.
Forum rules
This section is for posts that are directly related to performance, performers, or equipment. Social issues are allowed, as long as they are directly related to those categories. If you see a post that you cannot respond to with respect and courtesy, we ask that you do not respond at all.
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 19412
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3870 times
Been thanked: 4135 times

Re: Purchasing used Sousa for a high school band

Post by bloke »

mcp111 wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:12 am The durability issue is less of a concern for me, for all the reasons you brought up and because I'm lucky to have kids that are actually thoughtful and careful. I just want to make sure in terms of playing there's no downside vs. buying new Conn's or King's. If they play just as well then it seems like an easy choice.
They play like King, because that's what they copy (or "reference", as some people - who sell copies of other stuff prefer the word "reference" :laugh: )

The differences are
- again: the thickness of the sheet metal used to make the large "branches" of the instrument being thicker with JP
- The upper mouthpipe is shaped like a Conn 20K mouthpipe (instead of like a King). The tuning bits are interchangeable YET different - one accommodates standard shank mouthpieces, and the other better accommodates slightly larger "euro" shank mouthpieces.
- The pistons are very well-made (not typical good-enough Chinese) stainless steel pistons, and and the pistons/casings (again) rival European quality (including tolerances).
- The inside/outside slide tubing is nickel silver, which (if nothing else) is more difficult to dent.
- The bell collars (male/female) are also nickel silver which (again) is more difficult to bend.
- The instrument - just past the valve section - small lower bow was slightly shortened - so that the main slide could be lengthened - so that it sticks out past the #1 slide - defining the main slide as much easier to grasp and pull.
- The water keys are also nickel silver. (One of the "major brand" 's water keys are actually made of chrome-plated pot metal. When pot metal breaks, there's no really viable way to repair it, and - thus - those pot metal water keys must be discarded and replaced.)
- If the silver plated version of the JP sousaphone is chosen, they add antimony to the silver, which makes the plating more durable.

They play fine, but (again) can be abused and badly damaged (just as with all other makes).

You're very lucky to have great students currently in your section.
We (back in the early 1970's) had the economy version (36K) Elkhart-Conn fiberglass sousaphones, but not even the bottoms were scuffed (certainly no dents nor scratches), as we rested them on our shoe or on our cardboard folder of "march-size" music, and stored them on the old collapsible "butterfly"-style stands (similar to the German-made K&M currently-made stands).
It's difficult, though, to predict what type of students might appear in any particular program in the future.
If the subsequent students (at my alma mater) had carried on with our attitudes/behaviors, those economy-model Conn fiberglass instruments would still be in superb condition to this day. That having been said, I have to feel certain that (surely) all of them have been junked and discarded.


mcp111
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2022 6:48 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Purchasing used Sousa for a high school band

Post by mcp111 »

By fine, you mean comparable to the other most expensive new options? No weird intonation issues or other surprises?
User avatar
matt g
Posts: 2583
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:37 am
Location: Southeastern New England
Has thanked: 263 times
Been thanked: 555 times

Re: Purchasing used Sousa for a high school band

Post by matt g »

mcp111 wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:27 am By fine, you mean comparable to the other most expensive new options? No weird intonation issues or other surprises?
Intonation and response that is on par with the King version that was copied.

The one smart thing about these higher-quality Chinese instruments is that they have been copying, with high fidelity, good benchmarks for overall playability.
Dillon/Walters CC (sold)
Meinl-Weston 2165 (sold)
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 19412
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3870 times
Been thanked: 4135 times

Re: Purchasing used Sousa for a high school band

Post by bloke »

Our 36K (and the sister 14K brass) sousaphones featured a really flat 1st valve C.
The larger 20K (and former fiberglass sister) 22K sousaphones feature a noticeably flat open F.
King tubas and sousaphones also offer a flat 1st valve C and a fairly high upper open F.
Yamaha (and a Chinese copy make) are far from free of intonation issues, but those are sold "because Yamaha".

Mellophones - and certainly alto saxophones - are all pretty quirky, but schools buy all makes of those.

I'm going to step out any say that any 3-valve or 4-valve sousaphone (nor this tuba, that I just bought for myself - https://www.wwbw.com/Miraphone-98-Siegf ... 01001.wwbw ) are going to offer perfect/dialed-in/issues-free intonation.

JP sousaphone intonation is not perfect, but as good as any.
Others' opinions will vary, including those who might claim that this/that/the-other brand of sousaphone plays perfectly in tune.
mcp111
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2022 6:48 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Purchasing used Sousa for a high school band

Post by mcp111 »

:thumbsup:
Post Reply