Eb vs F tuba in an orchestra to the tubists ears

[bort2.0]

it seems to me that the design of the instrument might have as much or more to do with sound perception in the audience as difference in length.

The rest is the player. In the right hands even a smallish F can sound bigger than a more-than-average-sized contrabass tuba with an average player

On a similar note, a big EEb bass can "sing" like a nimble f tuba in the right hands

Yes, but that sounds like an Eb tuba all day long

[TheDoctor]

Yes, but that sounds like an Eb tuba all day long

Lacquer or silver?

[jtm]

music director:

tuba

Music director actually mentioned the tubas in read-through last week. It was pretty much, "yes, it really is that fast; don't worry as much about the notes as getting the shape and feeling right." Nothing about F or Eb, though.

[bloke]

music director:

tuba

Music director actually mentioned the tubas in read-through last week. It was pretty much, "yes, it really is that fast; don't worry as much about the notes as getting the shape and feeling right." Nothing about F or Eb, though.

...must have been something fast

[Mary Ann]

Music director actually mentioned the tubas in read-through last week. It was pretty much, "yes, it really is that fast; don't worry as much about the notes as getting the shape and feeling right." Nothing about F or Eb, though.

So --- I do not have, never did have, and never will have the capability of playing anything lickety split on the tuba. Violin yes, double reeds, eventually yes if I put the work in. Brass -- only up to a point on horn before the dystonia interrupted progress.

So am I the only one who will xerox the part with all those 16th notes, carefully whiteout every other one, and play 8th notes on time not messing up the works with a what sounds like brass slobber?

[b.williams]

Music director actually mentioned the tubas in read-through last week. It was pretty much, "yes, it really is that fast; don't worry as much about the notes as getting the shape and feeling right." Nothing about F or Eb, though.

So --- I do not have, never did have, and never will have the capability of playing anything lickety split on the tuba. Violin yes, double reeds, eventually yes if I put the work in. Brass -- only up to a point on horn before the dystonia interrupted progress.

So am I the only one who will xerox the part with all those 16th notes, carefully whiteout every other one, and play 8th notes on time not messing up the works with a what sounds like brass slobber?

No you are not. I wish more would. Many of my mates stage heroic struggles.

[b.williams]

So am I the only one who will xerox the part with all those 16th notes, carefully whiteout every other one, and play 8th notes on time not messing up the works with a what sounds like brass slobber?

No you are not. I've reduced many a brass band BBb tuba part. Never has a director asked that the more complex part be played. Heroic struggles with notes never lead to proper tempo.

[bloke]

In another thread, I discussed a 4th trombone part (F cimbasso for me - and later I moved over to the tuba part when the tuba and 4th trombone parts were - pretty much - unison) in a very very long John Williams fanfare, whereby - over and over - the part jumped from D above the staff down to C in the middle of the staff (to execute triple tonguing on the Cs - as those Cs only occurred in the 4th part).

I worked the part out and played it, but later it occurred to me that all the other trombones were playing all of those D’s above the staff, and I could’ve circled those (not played them) and just played the fast C triplets in time and covered the quartal harmony chords - which needed those Cs. (No one else had to jump down a ninth from that D - only up or down from that D in much smaller intervals.)

[Snake Charmer]

So am I the only one who will xerox the part with all those 16th notes, carefully whiteout every other one, and play 8th notes on time not messing up the works with a what sounds like brass slobber?

Absolutely not. I do this when needed with my notation software (Finale), and often enough I have to type in the music to get a readable size and quality

[Mary Ann]

I really think that both composers and arrangers should be absolutely required to be able to play every instrument they are writing for, so that they understand the difference between a mortal human can do and what a computer can do. And even moreso if they are writing at a level that amateurs will attempt.

Or, of course, we could just get rid of all the mortal human musicians and let the computers do all of it. Not that we aren't headed that way anyway. My friend who played horn for the traveling Phantom show for ten years saw the advent of the virtual orchestra. They didn't dump the two horns but dumped a whole lot of other players and replaced them with some guy with a keyboard, to save money (i.e., have more money for the people not actually doing the work.)

[Tuba1153]

I am going to defer to a Bill Rose story…

Back when Mr Rose was playing in the Houston Symphony, a guest conductor came into town and this “Fancy Pants conductor” said that the Tuba sounded too big (Mr Rose playing on his 186 CC). The conductor asked Mr. Rose if he could have an F tuba for the next rehearsal. Mr. Rose probably made some guttural sound and agreed. The next day Mr Rose showed up with the smallest horn he had in his arsenal, a 184-CC, and conductor was tickled pink with the sound of Mr. Rose’s “F” tuba.

[arpthark]

I really think that both composers and arrangers should be absolutely required to be able to play every instrument they are writing for, so that they understand the difference between a mortal human can do and what a computer can do. And even moreso if they are writing at a level that amateurs will attempt.

In a past life I was (am?) a music theorist and Hindemith scholar, and it was said that Hindemith, a fine violist in his own right, was able to play the solo parts as written for all of the umpteen sonatas for orchestral instruments he wrote. That story may be apocryphal, but there is evidence he was proficient on some brass instruments as well as various early music instruments that he played while teaching at Yale.

[cjk]

If anyone knows of recordings of big tuba rep being played on the Besson (or similar) E flat, I'd love to listen to it. Especially if it's on youtube.

inspired by Patrick Harrild playing the ride excerpt on his Besson Eb at about 1:30:


The video is 11 years old. I remember when it was new.

[cthuba]

Interesting points ya’ll. I always feel myself being to drawn to having an eb as a bass tuba, but I had never thought of as a contrabass tuba. Interesting.

[TheDoctor]

Video

Hey, that was better than I thought it would be!
Wonder if the stage was shaking

[Mary Ann]

I didn't realize the tuba part to the Ride was so low. My Eb will do that but not sure I can with recognizable pitches.

[LargeTuba]

I didn't realize the tuba part to the Ride was so low. My Eb will do that but not sure I can with recognizable pitches.

My Eb has such a good low register, I can do it almost the same as my Contrabass.

[arpthark]

If anyone knows of recordings of big tuba rep being played on the Besson (or similar) E flat, I'd love to listen to it. Especially if it's on youtube.

inspired by Patrick Harrild playing the ride excerpt on his Besson Eb at about 1:30:


The video is 11 years old. I remember when it was new.

PH is 1000x the tuba player I am, and I am impressed by his musicianship.

But, my frank opinion, the sound is a bit oinky, isn't it? And I think that is much more the compensating eefer than PH.

[cjk]

I didn't realize the tuba part to the Ride was so low. My Eb will do that but not sure I can with recognizable pitches.

IIRC, The lowest note is a low E. If you still have one of the Miraphone star models, that's all 5 valves down on your Eb, a half step above the pedal Eb (you probably knew all that already).

[bloke]

“Curmudgeonly/I’m better than you/I know more than you/what are you going to do about it” comment:

I posted the “organ symphony” thing to demonstrate that a small-mouthpipe (begins at or under .500” bore) F tuba with five more sizes (beginning with only a 17 mm bore). and a conservative size mouthpiece can sound just like somebody going to town on a 186.
I think the more that manufacturers and their advisers try to make F tubas larger to sound like contrabass tubas, the less they sound like contrabass tubas.

instructive:
Some non-beat-up and non-worn-out 1950s and 1960s saxophones - of a certain model and make - sell for close to $20,000. Stuff made after that was all made “bigger“, which made that stuff – in comparison – suck. A few really well-made Chinese saxophones - which absolutely copy those 1950s - 1960s French saxophones - do not suck.