A=440

[bloke]

Without running a poll, I would like to hear about how many of you Americans - who run around playing gigs - ever need your tuba to tune above A=440.

With me playing it, my Miraphone model 98 will tune scantly sharp (pushed all the way in) but 440 tuning is only a slight pull.

I tend to find that - even when a group might tune at 441 or 442, I’m still OK – particularly if there’s a bunch of playing, and the instrument stays warm. I believe most of us would agree that it may be a good practice to mechanically slightly defeat most of our tendencies to blow sharp - particularly when asked to play quite loudly.

Of course, this will be my first winter with the instrument - and that may be a serious factor, but - so far - I have been able to deal with the instrument with all hired groups at all venues.

(I have a pair of nice brand new short main slide ferrules, but am going back-and-forth with myself regarding whether or not to pull this slide apart and install them.)

I've noticed that the various "bear" models tuning slides (at least, for me) tend to be set up to play barely up to A=440.
I'm guessing that's purposeful - to eliminate as much main slide/main bugle bore distortion as possible.

LOL… just as with all the rest of you, I’m going to do what I’m going to do (whatever that ends up being), but I would enjoy reading some opinions, and will not argue with any of them nor challenge any of them.

[tubanh84]

I played in a group that proudly tuned to 442. I'm not sure why they were so into it. But whatever.

I never had to move my slides when I got to a rehearsal with that group. And my tendency is to play slightly flat. If they actually did play at 442, which I never checked with my own tuner, but sort of question, it was apparently not at all hard for me to play with them on my normal setup without changing a thing. This included concerts throughout the year, including a particularly brutal winter.

If they DID actually tune to 442, my explanations for my lack of a need to do anything with my main tuning slide were:

1. No one can actually hear 2 cents. If you were tuning before a concert, and you hit your A within 2 cents of where it should be, you'd put away the tuner and consider yourself in tune.
2. No one plays so consistently that tuning a single note to 442 means they will hit every note dead in tune at 442.
3. #2 above is actually irrelevant. We move notes around so much anyway due to the key signature and where it falls within a chord that a single note being 2 cents sharper than we are "used to" doesn't matter at all. I.e., you're pulling the 3rd of a major chord down anyway, what does another 2 cents matter?

[arpthark]

I played in a group that proudly tuned to 442. I'm not sure why they were so into it. But whatever.

I never had to move my slides when I got to a rehearsal with that group. And my tendency is to play slightly flat. If they actually did play at 442, which I never checked with my own tuner, but sort of question, it was apparently not at all hard for me to play with them on my normal setup without changing a thing. This included concerts throughout the year, including a particularly brutal winter.

If they DID actually tune to 442, my explanations for my lack of a need to do anything with my main tuning slide were:

1. No one can actually hear 2 cents. If you were tuning before a concert, and you hit your A within 2 cents of where it should be, you'd put away the tuner and consider yourself in tune.
2. No one plays so consistently that tuning a single note to 442 means they will hit every note dead in tune at 442.
3. #2 above is actually irrelevant. We move notes around so much anyway due to the key signature and where it falls within a chord that a single note being 2 cents sharper than we are "used to" doesn't matter at all. I.e., you're pulling the 3rd of a major chord down anyway, what does another 2 cents matter?

Just FYI, cents and Hz aren't the same, as cents are logarithmic.

The difference between pitches tuned to A=440 and A=442 Hz is about 8 cents.

[Jperry1466]

I was sometimes criticized for "sounding" sharp playing in an ensemble, especially a band. A friend taught me that tubas can be tuned slightly flat and not only sound in tune, but actually add body to the ensemble sound. I tuned my tuba sections about 7-10 cents flat to the band for years with good results.

[bloke]

re: flat tuba

I’ve discussed that here before.
If stretch tuning sounds good/acceptable with keyboards, it likely works with other instruments.

[ronr]

I never tune, the group always tunes to me.

[arpthark]

I never tune, the group always tunes to me.

My tuba was tuned at the factory, so I don't even have to worry about it.

[bloke]

I never tune, the group always tunes to me.

If we play loud enough, that's going to be the case, isn't it?

(One of those ads appeared on fb for a new type of metronome. I posted that I never use those things, that I was born with "perfect" time, and that the people with the atomic clocks and the folks in Greenwich, England contact me periodically to check their equipment.)

[iiipopes]

Never. Every ensemble I have played with since I started school concert band in the early 70's, whether brass, popular, orchestra, church organs, everything, has been A=440. Even if altered tunings were used on bass guitar/electric guitar, they were referenced to how many semi-tones away from A=440. Even the harpsichords I have performed with which had the lever to get to "Baroque" tuning were based on being a half step or whole step lower than A=440. The only time I ever had to change tunings was for the occasional beat-up piano that couldn't hold A=440, and so that was actually to down tune, not up tune.

Yeah, I know, a person should never use never and every, but in this case, it is true. I cannot recall any situation of up tune, even on the hottest days outdoors with a souzy. I just pulled out the main tuning slide just about fell out. But it remained A=440. Did I say A=440?

[tubanh84]

Never. Every ensemble I have played with since I started school concert band in the early 70's, whether brass, popular, orchestra, church organs, everything, has been A=440. Even if altered tunings were used on bass guitar/electric guitar, they were referenced to how many semi-tones away from A=440. Even the harpsichords I have performed with which had the lever to get to "Baroque" tuning were based on being a half step or whole step lower than A=440.

That’s pretty amazing given how obsessed with alternate pitch early music people are. My lute works best at 440 because of the string length, and I’m always a half step off of the recordings I listen to.

[iiipopes]

Never. Every ensemble I have played with since I started school concert band in the early 70's, whether brass, popular, orchestra, church organs, everything, has been A=440. Even if altered tunings were used on bass guitar/electric guitar, they were referenced to how many semi-tones away from A=440. Even the harpsichords I have performed with which had the lever to get to "Baroque" tuning were based on being a half step or whole step lower than A=440.

That’s pretty amazing given how obsessed with alternate pitch early music people are. My lute works best at 440 because of the string length, and I’m always a half step off of the recordings I listen to.

Yes. I know there are many vintage church organs in Europe that don't do A=440. The pitch of organ pipes has varied much over the centuries. It's just that the choir trips I was on performed in places that were either A=440 or simply out of tune up or down due to the temperature of the venue. The lever on a harpsichord actually moves the keyboard laterally so instead of the jacks plucking the concert pitch strings, the entire keyboard and mechanism is moved laterally down a note so the A jack is plucking the G# concert pitch strings. When I was in undergrad Peter Tkach sold a harpsichord to two colleges in town and set up a few in a meeting room for inspection. He taught me about the mechanism, boar's bristle, peau de buffle, lute stop, the different European schools of keyboard ranges & registrations, etc.

[Mary Ann]

I never tune, the group always tunes to me.

That was a BIG surprise when I played my little polka gig a couple weeks ago --- there was a sax player there who had not been in any rehearsal, who was a retired music teacher or something. We got all set up, and then he turned to me and said "Tuba play a Bb." And they tuned to me, and I have NO IDEA where my Bb was except "within the normal Bb range of frequencies" because I always just tune to the rest of them. Pretty funny.

[tubanh84]

The lever on a harpsichord actually moves the keyboard laterally so instead of the jacks plucking the concert pitch strings, the entire keyboard and mechanism is moved laterally down a note so the A jack is plucking the G# concert pitch strings. When I was in undergrad Peter Tkach sold a harpsichord to two colleges in town and set up a few in a meeting room for inspection. He taught me about the mechanism, boar's bristle, peau de buffle, lute stop, the different European schools of keyboard ranges & registrations, etc.

That's incredible. I love it. I can't tell you how many lessons I do with my teacher where I'll play something, he'll demonstrate at 415, and then I'll play it back at 440, and it's JARRING. I just don't have it in me to retune 23 strings on friction pegs at this point.

[dp]

My tuba was tuned at the factory, so I don't even have to worry about it.

you got one too?

[iiipopes]

The lever on a harpsichord actually moves the keyboard laterally so instead of the jacks plucking the concert pitch strings, the entire keyboard and mechanism is moved laterally down a note so the A jack is plucking the G# concert pitch strings. When I was in undergrad Peter Tkach sold a harpsichord to two colleges in town and set up a few in a meeting room for inspection. He taught me about the mechanism, boar's bristle, peau de buffle, lute stop, the different European schools of keyboard ranges & registrations, etc.

That's incredible. I love it. I can't tell you how many lessons I do with my teacher where I'll play something, he'll demonstrate at 415, and then I'll play it back at 440, and it's JARRING. I just don't have it in me to retune 23 strings on friction pegs at this point.

Further explanation:
https://www.hpschd.nu/index.html?nav/na ... trans.html

[bloke]

yeah...
I'm seriously considering leaving the tuning slide alone through January/February, and only altering its length (again, without altering its tuning RANGE) if playing "up to the tuning of fill-in-the-blank" becomes a wintertime issue.

Thanks for the feedback thus far.