What can you tell me about the Chief mouthpiece?

[Dave Detwiler]

Hi all,

What can you tell me about this mouthpiece? A friend of mine, Douglas Yeo, is writing a low brass dictionary, and plans to include an entry on John Kuhn. I assume this mouthpiece was named for him, but does anyone have the scoop, so that I can point Doug in the right direction? Thanks!

1923-24 Conn Bass catalog - Chief Mouthpiece.JPG (32.77 KiB) Viewed 2475 times

[Dave Detwiler]

Last call - anyone know anything about this mouthpiece? Thanks!

[bort2.0]

https://simonettitubacollection.com/mou ... outhpiece/

Big mouthpiece... Very deep, very wide, large bore. Not so much fun for most other players, so maybe that's why it's not popular? Yes, named after John Kuhn...

Tiny bit of info here, too:
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnMpc ... tists.html

Lee Stofer might have more info too,he knows a lot I general,plus once offered his own lineup of classic Conn mouthpieces.

Hope this helps 1%!

[Dave Detwiler]

Wonderful - now we're getting somewhere! Thanks, bort!

[eeflattuba]

Wessex tubas have made a copy of the Chief mouthpiece of which i own but do not play.Perhaps you could reach out to them and see if they have any historical information that they would be willing to share?

[Dave Detwiler]

Excellent idea - thanks so much!

[cjk]

I have an pristine original Conn Chief. The throat is very wide. It has an American shank. Interior rim diameter is about 32.6 mm. The rim is quite wide.

[Dave Detwiler]

I have an pristine original Conn Chief. The throat is very wide. It has an American shank. Interior rim diameter is about 32.6 mm. The rim is quite wide.

Hi cjk - do you have a photo you would be willing to share, since all we have so far is an artist's rendering above?

[bloke]

I have an pristine original Conn Chief. The throat is very wide. It has an American shank. Interior rim diameter is about 32.6 mm. The rim is quite wide.

I have a theory that the Holton "Revelation" 52 is extremely similar (VERY wide and VERY long - fairly obviously made from a 2" x 4" cylindrical brass blank, rather than a 1.75" x 3.75" blank...as the exterior measurement of these huge Chief-ish mouthpieces seems to be very close to 50mm).

Sometime, I'd like to compare and see if I'm right or wrong.

I have owned some Conn 1 mouthpieces,
(which are said - at least: theorized - to be plain-exterior re-issues of the "Chief" interior design...and I would tend to wonder if Schilke made those Conn 1,2,3,4 things, as Schilke's own mouthpiece exterior shapes were identical to Conn, during that era...??)
and the Conn 1 mouthpieces that I've owned are VERY similar - in the Holton 52 rim and interior dimensions - to Conn 1 mouthpieces.

I do recall that Holton did make a very elaborately native-American-themed engraved sousaphone (correct?) for Kuhn, so apparently there was an association with him - at least, for a time.

The Holton "Revelation" 52 features a quite-wide rim, (again) a nearly 2-inch o.d., a not-far-from 4-inch length, a very deep straight-funnel cup, a very large throat, a straight-taper back-bore, and a euro shank (which fit the Holton 345 euro shank receivers).

[hrender]

Completed ad: https://www.ebay.com/itm/153966279910

Also: http://uptownhistory.compassrose.org/20 ... think.html

[dp]

I have a theory that the Holton "Revelation" 52 is extremely similar (VERY wide and VERY long - fairly obviously made from a 2" x 4" cylindrical brass blank, rather than a 1.75" x 3.75" blank...as the exterior measurement of these huge Chief-ish mouthpieces seems to be very close to 50mm).
Sometime, I'd like to compare and see if I'm right or wrong.
The Holton "Revelation" 52 features a quite-wide rim, (again) a nearly 2-inch o.d., a not-far-from 4-inch length, a very deep straight-funnel cup, a very large throat, a straight-taper back-bore, and a euro shank (which fit the Holton 345 euro shank receivers).

Great, now I have a reason to pull those giant Holton buckets off the shelf and lookit 'em! I don't have a Conn Chief up there but I believe there are a couple Dillon Chiefs that I nearly fell into when I tried them out what....20 years ago??

[bloke]

I have a theory that the Holton "Revelation" 52 is extremely similar (VERY wide and VERY long - fairly obviously made from a 2" x 4" cylindrical brass blank, rather than a 1.75" x 3.75" blank...as the exterior measurement of these huge Chief-ish mouthpieces seems to be very close to 50mm).
Sometime, I'd like to compare and see if I'm right or wrong.
The Holton "Revelation" 52 features a quite-wide rim, (again) a nearly 2-inch o.d., a not-far-from 4-inch length, a very deep straight-funnel cup, a very large throat, a straight-taper back-bore, and a euro shank (which fit the Holton 345 euro shank receivers).

Great, now I have a reason to pull those giant Holton buckets off the shelf and lookit 'em! I don't have a Conn Chief up there but I believe there are a couple Dillon Chiefs that I nearly fell into when I tried them out what....20 years ago??

IF (??) the "Conn 1 is just like a Conn Chief on the inside" thing is true, it would be instructive to compare a (more easily obtained) Conn 1 and compare it to a Holton 52.

People pay buttloads of dough for original Conn Helleberg mouthpieces - which resemble Civil War "dug" relics, yet (it is also said to be true...?? that) a Conn 2 (zillions of them on eBay in good shape) and a Helleberg 7B are both the same (rim and inside) as an original Conn Helleberg.

A well-known professional tubaiste emails me links to those horrible-condition old Conn Hellebergs (with their $3XX - $4XX bids) with laugh emojis attached...
fwiw, That particular players likes/uses that size/style of mouthpiece.

[cjk]

I have an pristine original Conn Chief. The throat is very wide. It has an American shank. Interior rim diameter is about 32.6 mm. The rim is quite wide.

Hi cjk - do you have a photo you would be willing to share, since all we have so far is an artist's rendering above?

Here you go:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... YKnWJbnF84

[barry grrr-ero]

"I have an pristine original Conn Chief. The throat is very wide. It has an American shank. Interior rim diameter is about 32.6 mm. The rim is quite wide."

This is interesting to me, because this description is almost the exact opposite of a 'Conn Helleberg Chief' I owned by in the 1970s and '80s. It had a very wide cup with a very narrow, flat rim. It was quite deep, but the throat was relatively small (as if to compensate for all the 'bigness').

Barry Guerrero

[cjk]

"I have an pristine original Conn Chief. The throat is very wide. It has an American shank. Interior rim diameter is about 32.6 mm. The rim is quite wide."

This is interesting to me, because this description is almost the exact opposite of a 'Conn Helleberg Chief' I owned by in the 1970s and '80s. It had a very wide cup with a very narrow, flat rim. It was quite deep, but the throat was relatively small (as if to compensate for all the 'bigness').

Barry Guerrero

I've never heard of a "Conn Helleberg Chief". The Conn Helleberg and the Conn Chief were signature mouthpieces for two different people.

[bloke]

yes...The Conn catalog drawing of their "Chief" mouthpiece's dimensions are distorted (compacted, lengthwise) compared to the actual mouthpieces I've seen in front of my eyes in 3D.

[Mary Ann]

When I was play testing the Wessex 3/4 BBb, they sent a Chief with it. I liked the mouthpiece and am surprised that it is considered huge, because I have trouble with something like a Jim Self, whose throat is too big and which is too funnel shaped. Maybe the chief is a bit cup shaped? This was years ago so all I really remember is that it seemed to fit that tuba well. I ended up buying my NStar of course.

[bloke]

I recall some blurb (in an early-or-still-online Chino-Chief mouthpiece ad) claiming that the other Chief mouthpieces are not the "real" Chief mouthpieces, yet theirs is...or something to that effect...
...so (apparently...??) the Chino-Chief is not the same as (ie. apparently, not similar to) a Conn Chief...
...which would (well...) allow for it to be smaller.
I'm built large. When I become about as thin as would be considered healthy, I still weigh 200 lbs, and do not appear overweight at 220 - 230 lbs. I will never be able to wear any trousers smaller-waisted than 36" - 38"...and I have a large head as well, with a large hat size.
>> That having been said, the Conn Chief mouthpieces are VERY large on my face.

When I was play testing the Wessex 3/4 BBb, they sent a Chief with it. I liked the mouthpiece and am surprised that it is considered huge, because I have trouble with something like a Jim Self, whose throat is too big and which is too funnel shaped. Maybe the chief is a bit cup shaped? This was years ago so all I really remember is that it seemed to fit that tuba well. I ended up buying my NStar of course.

[Mary Ann]

Having recently been weighed at a stellar 88 pounds (not quite skeletal and no I am NOT anorexic)....my corners are never visible in a tuba mouthpiece that I sound decent on. I have no idea why, because my horn mouthpiece (Lawson) is not one of the wider ones, and my euph mpc is a kelly 5G. I think that's all in the "go figure" category. If I had to speculate, maybe a certain amount of tissue is needed to get a good sound, and that's why I need all my tissue inside a tuba cup.

[humBell]

My apologies for not chiming in earlier. I got my hands on a Chief at some point, and been meaning to dig it up and play with it some to confirm my memories, but well, there isn't much playing to be done, and i slept through my last rehearsal.

My memories are that it and it's larger throat made it feel like it took more air than i had to sustain top notch sound.

The Conn 1 I think is what i was comparing it to, which was just at the right amount for me, and for some instruments, was just the right mouthpiece to get a full sound out of them.

Meh, i'll try to find an excuse to give the Chief another more rigorous try...