cutting Fat Bastard down to size (OK. I'm probably -??- done posting to this thread.)

[the elephant]

another tribute to Wade - for when he's soldering outdoors in the wind:

I don't see how he does it. I have a little double element / double fan 220 wall heater that blows heat out from underneath my main work desk in my shop, and - when I'm sitting in front of my desk and soldering (where I prefer to solder, as opposed to my solder bench) - I cannot solder worth a crap when that thing is blowing on my flame.

I either need to move over in front of the bench's drawers - which block the air, or just turn the SOB off.

It is a crappy situation, but it is what I have. I do the best I can, but everything ends up pink due to overheating. I have one of those micro-butane torches now and use it indoors all the time. It stinks up the house considerably less than acetylene, produces far less dross, and for soft sodering small stuff is just the getter solution.

I hate having my work come out this discolored and sloppy. It used to be so neat and clean, with almost zero cleanup work needed afterward. Now half my time is spent cleaning up the crappy work I get done with the wind blowing the flame all over Kingdom Come.

[the elephant]

These are the o.e.m. tighter-@$$ed-than-the-#2-slide-bow bows that were previously components of the #5 slide assembly:

If you don't want those parts I'll buy them from you. They are nominally 21.2-ish mm, yes?

[bloke]

These are the o.e.m. tighter-@$$ed-than-the-#2-slide-bow bows that were previously components of the #5 slide assembly:

If you don't want those parts I'll buy them from you. They are nominally 21.2-ish mm, yes?

At least one of them is red rotted...(??)
(water running to the top, when the tuba was rested on its bell)

[the elephant]

On a new tuba? Seriously?

[bloke]

On a new tuba? Seriously?

probably 8 or 9 years old...but gently handled and seldom played...but - when played - obviously not drained, and obviously not generously oiled (as generous oiling - with the oil finding its way throughout a valveset - prevents red-rot (just as humans touching the ceilings of caves - with their oily hands - prevents the formation of stalactites).

The other red-rot bows are a couple of the #4 circuit bows (again: same as 188 MTS bows). I have new 80:20 bows here with which to replace them...but I ain't done it yet...I'll do that when I precision-align the slides in the #4 circuit.

I believe two of these little bows are probably uncorrupted...
Again, I believe them to be narrower than 21.2mm #2 slide bows.

(This instrument's original owner was more of a - really fine, fwiw - euphonium player and - when tuba - E-flat tuba player. In the case, this thing's pro'lly 75 lbs., and/but there's no way I would tote it in a friggin' bag...I sorta wonder if the previous owner didn't much like the 75 lbs. thing...)

[the elephant]

I need two and ferrules if you’re selling — or trading…

… and if not, I don’t need them that badly, so either way…

[bloke]

I need two and ferrules if you’re selling — or trading…

As soon as/if I determine that they're not needed, you can have 'em...but (unless you need 'em tout suite) let me make sure I don't have a purpose.

[bloke]

See those "burned gloves" marks in 'em ?

I just haven't ever figured out how to wiggle short/tight-fitting tuba bows out of ferrules (OK: without tearing them up) without putting my hands on 'em.

[the elephant]

Same. Welding gloves are a consumable item in my shop.

[bloke]

OK...

I puffed up my chest and took on the #3 slide assembly reconfig.
C#
- With the #3 slide pulled all the way out (very short slide tube on one side), the #3 circuit is barely long enough (low F# 3 - 4 c. sharp, same with C#, bottom-of-staff F# typically c. 10c flat - very flexible, thankfully, and upper F# on the money).

- #3 slide alignment was mediocre at best. Even though short, it required coaxing to push it in and pull it out.
(possibly not the fault of Miraphone...The circuit loop is delicate with nearly no bracing...Someone may (??) have picked it up by this loop and goofed it up...)

- no water key...Tuba had to be rotated, #3 slide had to be removed, and collected water had to be blown out.

so...THIS:

PICTURES WERE TAKEN WITH THE BELL FLARE RESTING ON THE FLOOR:


pre body tubing cut
body tubing cut
assembly ready to install

[bloke]

Now that "the closest to in-tune" for (most of) the 2-3 combination pitches is no longer "as far out as I can manage to pull the #3 slide - to it's precipice", I'm discovering that the length of the #3 circuit - ON AVERAGE (and yes: this defines that the F-sharp at the bottom of the staff is even flatter and must be favored even more) - the circuit needed to be EVEN LONGER (as it's now capable of being).

The (often tenuous on B-flat tubas) F-sharp UP in the staff is now MUCH more secure (with the longer-than-before tuned length).

Actually, I'm setting the #3 circuit length about 1-1/4 inches or so (5/8" additional on each 'leg") BEYOND to where the slide was capable of being pulled before.

I'm starting to wonder if MUCH of the problem with the often-tenuous F-sharp up in the staff (B-flat tubas) is due to the #3 circuit being more tuned to the (often FLAT) F-sharp at the BOTTOM of the staff, rather than tuning the #3 slide to the THREE OTHER 2-3 valve combination pitches, and playing that lots-of-cylindrical-tubing higher-range pitch with not enough tubing - to play it flat enough for easy/good tuning - is just "asking for it"...eh?

[Oedipoes]

Coincidence or not, I did something similar to my B&F kaiser back in October:
The 3rd slide length was extended as much as it could (to still allow removal of the slide). (work done by Mike Johnson)

It made the 2+3 combinations in tune
+
I can play high C with 1+3 in tune quite well now, C# with 2+3.
The alternative of shortening 1st slide and pushing it in for C was much less practical...

Very happy with how it turned out!

[bloke]

There's one more picture in the series that shows where I cut the better part of an inch off of the instrument from the tubing on the right side of the picture prior to installing the new slide assembly. Sometimes that picture pops up, and usually it doesn't want to. I tried to fix it, and maybe I'll try again.

Whatever.

[arpthark]

There's one more picture in the series that shows where I cut the better part of an inch off of the instrument from the tubing on the right side of the picture prior to installing the new slide assembly. Sometimes that picture pops up, and usually it doesn't want to. I tried to fix it, and maybe I'll try again.

Whatever.

This'un?

[bloke]

yep...
It doesn't seem to "pop" every single time...intermittent...

thnx

(I left the long overlap on the (picture orientation) left side, to help me stabilize the angle at which the outside slide tube leaves the circuit tubing - as this work "down inside the back of the instrument" was all quite awkward...

The side on the right (extremely flexible without being braced) was wiggled around (read: subtly BENT) until it entered the (right side) outside slide with absolutely no "coaxing".

...Though I should probably have pulled out my inside micrometers (or bought a very short calipers) I wasn't able to fit my 6-inch calipers in there, and had to do an "alignment by feel" installation. (OK...Either I'm experienced or lucky, because - thankfully - it turned out very nice, and moves very freely.)

==================================================

For those who are familiar with the Bach trumpet #3 slide stop rod assemblies,
(sort of like this)

stop rod.png (11.59 KiB) Viewed 1396 times

I'm probably going to install THREE of them:

#1 valve slide - so it stops falling on the floor, when I set the tuba on its bell
#5 overlap slide - so it can't shoot out on to the floor (compression overriding the #5 rotor vent), when I push the main part of the #5 slide in quickly
#3 slide (the one shown just above) - so I might (??) rig up the option of hooking something over my left wrist, and pushing that slide in for the F-sharp at the bottom of the staff (perhaps spring-loaded, so it goes right back out (for the other three 2-3 pitches) with I'm though playing that particular F-sharp.

bloke "a flawed human who struggles to not play out-of-tune, and - thus - likes to attempt to eliminate the instrument as a flawed intonation device"

[arpthark]

yep...
It doesn't seem to "pop" every single time...intermittent...

thnx

I've had that happen with Imgur too; I pulled the link from your post and it was an album link (has "/a/" in the URL) so it didn't want to work with the board's image tag. Right clicking the image on the album link page and selecting "open image in new tab" gave me the direct .jpeg/.jpg file link, which is friendlier with the board's image tag.

How do you take care of the burnt lacquer? Remove + reshoot? Will that happen once you're done fiddling with it or before a "public" appearance?

[bloke]

yep...
It doesn't seem to "pop" every single time...intermittent...

thnx

I've had that happen with Imgur too; I pulled the link from your post and it was an album link (has "/a/" in the URL) so it didn't want to work with the board's image tag. Right clicking the image on the album link page and selecting "open image in new tab" gave me the direct .jpeg/.jpg file link, which is friendlier with the board's image tag.

How do you take care of the burnt lacquer? Remove + reshoot? Will that happen once you're done fiddling with it or before a "public" appearance?

yeah...I always right-click the imgur pics to get their url's...but still...sometimes...

burned lacquer:
I'm pretty slow about cleaning it up, because no one pays me to do that on my own instruments.
I probably won't until I believe I've made every alteration that I plan to make.
With some (admittedly: most) of my previous sales of personally-owned instruments, I actually didn't address those issues until I was ready to ship them to their new owners.

- I chip off (probably razor blade) as much burned lacquer as will chip off (that which has become brittle and separated, due to heat).
- I sand (as much as a have to - as little as I can get away with) with medium coarse (250 grit?) emery cloth.
- I go back with 600/1000/1500 paper, polish the places with a piece of 1/2"-wide woven lamp wicking (impregnated with brown polishing compound), cloak the rag work by finishing with strokes which run the same direction as the tubing, go back over everything (which needs lacquer) with a silver polishing cloth, and shoot the areas with two or three coats of rattle can (as rattle can tends to go on pretty thin). I also try to cover up adjacent areas to avoid over-spray.

There are no secrets or tricks outlined above...It's just boring/tedious work, which does nothing for the playing characteristics of the instrument.

I DO like for my instruments to look nice, but it's difficult to motivate myself to do that (again) to my own instruments - without the motivation of remuneration...

...RIGHT NOW,
- My F tuba needs a complete new lacquer job.
- The compact Holton B-flat tuba that I built needs ~a~ lacquer job.
- I've only put a finish on about 2/3rd of the cimbasso that I built.
- My compensating E-flat needs a new lacquer job, and (actually) a very small amount of dent removal.
so...

[bloke]

I just ordered some Yamaha octave mechanism short *saxophone posts (small/short/approx .91" pilot hole - which is small enough to work with...ie. too large would be a non-starter), some more 3mm stainless all-thread, and some 3mm thread brass knurled finger nuts ...to make THREE stop-rod assemblies for THREE slides on this instrument...I hope all that stuff is in stock.

EDIT: ...so Yamaha had NONE of the YAS-23 (discontinued made-in-Japan model) posts in stock...so I had to painfully peruse the YAS-26 (Chinese replacement) model's poorly-drawn parts diagram to locate the equivalent posts. They had FIVE in stock of the upper (not-threaded) post, and two or three of the LOWER (threaded) post (octave mechanism...the shortest properly-oriented-drilled-holes and no-spring-holes posts on the instrument). I'll end up with 7 posts that I can work with...I need 6 (2+2+2) for THREE different stop-rod mechanisms to be installed on THREE slides (#1, #3, and #5 circuits).

I sort of assumed that some Chinese manufacturer would offer various and sundry saxophone posts on eBay (ten for $30 or whatever), but - so far - none of them are doing that. I have a B.A.D. (big-ass-drawer) of new/old Selmer USA saxophone posts, but most of the short/drilled ones with flanges already installed have been used up - over the past three decades, since - long ago - I grabbed all of those out of a bucket in a scrapyard in South Bend.

I'll also need a couple of sizes of O-rings (tiny: to fit over the all-thread, and small: to stretch VERY tightly over slide tubing), but our ten-minutes-away (even out here in the boonies) Ace Hardware has a very impressive selection.
_______________________________
*I think I'll like these better than those Bach #3 trumpet slide thingies. Those Bach things scream "BACH !!!", and their flanges look too USA-ish. The round flanges on saxophone posts (in addition to the sturdiness) look more like something that them Deutschies might use.

[bloke]

This morning, some junk arrived from McMaster-Carr and from Yamaha...

(I already picked up some really small O-rings from Ace Hardware - ten minutes away (even though I live in the boonies, though these boonies are beginning to fill up with thousands of Memphis refugees).

I'll eventually be installing THREE stop rod assemblies on fatbastard (#1 slide, #3 slide, and loop-over #5 slide).
#1 - will allow full range (all the way in for 1st valve second-space C, and all the way out for 1-3 C an octave lower), but prevent the slide from falling on the floor, when the tuba is resting on the bell
#3 - limited range: out c. 1" for three 2-3 pitches, and in all the way for the remaining (4th partial) 2-3 pitch
#5 - so air pressure doesn't shoot it out like a rocket - when quickly pulling the #5 slide assembly back in from a "double low C" extended position

(I know that there is a $2X,XXX German-made Yorkophone supplied with oem black leatherette straps-on-buttons, and some of y'all like those things, but they are NOT my cup of tea.)

straps.png (144.09 KiB) Viewed 1331 times

and - of course - the knurled nuts are M3 threaded

[bloke]

A few more Miratoys arrived, today.

REVIEW: These slides have been shortened, lengthened, or reconfigured thus far...
- main (instrument was previously flat-natured)
- #1 (previously could not be pushed in far enough to tune 5th partial C and B)
- #3 (circuit was just a bit too short and poorly-aligned...possibly, from being picked up by that lightly-braced tubing?)
- #5 (required an epic pull to be in tune for the very low 2nd partial pitches...now: main portion of the slide is all the way in - allowing for plenty of pull range for 5234 "double-low" C, with a "piggy"-back slide - on the flip-over portion - along with longer slide bows - taking care of the needed length)

#1, #3, and #5 (reviewing) will receive stop-rod systems, with #3 also receiving an *auto-return spring.

The four *23 pitches:
Low F#, C#, and F# up in the staff all ask for about a 1" pull (3rd slide) with F# at the bottom of the staff asking for the slide to be pushed in all the way (typical 4th partial flat 23 combination issue). With my left hand on the #1 slide, I'm able to push the #3 slide (back of the instrument, and perfectly aligned) in all the way with my forearm (for a sustained F# at the bottom of the staff). The auto-return spring/stop-rod will allow that slide to recover back to the position that's more friendly to the other three 23 pitches.

This junk (arrived today) is to rebuild "blueprint" the #4 circuit with - as best bloke can manage - perfect alignment. The LONG (nearly 18" long) outside slide tube was previously a bit distressed. The upper #4 (which I never pull) DID work pretty darn well, but my plan is to (not with anything more sticking above the tuba body) epically increase the UPPER #4 slide pull range, while improving the alignment of all three #4 slides and (also - parts already received from Miraphone) replace three of the #4 circuit slide bows (some red rot is evident) with brand new 80:20 brass slide bows - which are just about impervious to decay. ...so the really long upper #4 slide pull range...?? Heck...I dunno...NO REASON, for now...but - once it's available - I might (??) figure out some fun stuff to do with it (OK...maybe some semitone vocal-style-when-appropriate portamentos...??)... and it's NOT to the detriment of ANYTHING else, does NOT require any circuit reconfiguration, and - since the potential pull range exists - why not realize that potential...??







I've done a ton of stuff to this instrument, and - yet - there is quite a bit more to do (though I feel as though I'm on the downward slope of the punch list). What I've really been enjoying - lately - is (probably [1] a combination of practicing, and [2] dialing in circuit lengths) the ABSENCE (compared to when this instrument first came into my possession) of amateurish-sounding poor attacks (attempting - and only succeeding perhaps 95% of the time - to simultaneously "lip" circuits inches longer or shorter while attacking particular pitches). Basically (to avoid these catastrophes at paid rehearsals and performances) I would find myself attacking pitches a bit out-of-tune, and then (as instantly as I could manage) "lipping" them to pitch. Anyway, that BS is now history.

I ALSO (finally) bought some of those "human"-shaped Miraphone PISTON valve guides (plastic/brass combo). I only bought a dozen or so, so I'm NOT (as I am NOT a "parts jobber") offering to mail of a "set" (ex: "Hey bloke, I'd like to replace my 1291 guides 'just because'..." etc...). Rather, I have them HERE for repair customers who end up with one broken one. (I'm tired of emergency fabricating them - out of metal - for people - "to be nice".)

sore throat (wtf?) today, and a dear friend (55 year friendship) died suddenly today, so I'm trying to stay "up" by posting crap.
(This was my friend who had never had any tuba lessons, took the school's Conn 36K fiberglass sousaphone, and (during Vietnam) auditioned into the Army - whereby the Army parked him in a base band for a year, and then put him where he belonged: in Pershing's Own. A third close buddy is trying to make it back from Belize (missionary work), as the two of them were brothers-in-law. The third close friend (OK...a year of trombone lessons from a Remington protege, when in the 12th Grade) auditioned into the band formerly known as the "Continental Army Band" at the very same time...a fabulous trombonist and genius who - with no degrees, and only independent study - soon acquired a job as a power plant control room operator, and - after a handful of years - was a power plant manager (all sorts of power plants) for the rest of his working life.