PB Blaster still the best for stuck slides?

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Is PB Blaster with some heat still the preferred penetrating oil for stuck slides?
Tnx
Mark

[bloke]

Hi-
Is PB Blaster with some heat still the preferred penetrating oil for stuck slides?
Tnx
Mark

As with any really effective penetrating oil, it really stinks, but I have pretty good luck with it.

For one of the RARE instances, I actually had HEAT to work on a set of slides, a couple of days ago:
That beat-to-hell Cerveny that I'm bringing back from the dead...
ALL the slides were seized, but (in this rare instance) it was ACTUALLY (not lime/scale per usual, but) dried/hardened grease, which had turned into cement...so HEAT freed every one of them.

[JRaymo]

Hi-
Is PB Blaster with some heat still the preferred penetrating oil for stuck slides?
Tnx
Mark

I cannot confirm if it is safe for brass but the best penetrating oil I have ever used is called Kroil. Far superior to PB but I have not researched if it safe on brass.


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[UncleBeer]

I like Kroil as well.

330381424_752263779861352_2406333528152360445_n.jpg (92.22 KiB) Viewed 2183 times

[arpthark]

I'm a home hack, but I also use Kroil. And I love the smell!

[bloke]

That's interesting - and I wouldn't dispute it...

...but they were dealing with rusted steel (probably threaded nuts/bolts ??), and we are dealing with copper alloys' surfaces being stuck together for one or more of several reasons.
- plain ol' corrosion/oxidation
- leached solder acid
- various types of greases having dried into cement
- lime/scale
- small dents in the tubing
- stuff I haven't though of, while typing this B.S.

As far as "The Science", I would like to know whether they did their experiment over-and-over (and averaged it) or whether it was just one set of bolts (which someone attempted to rust together "the same").

bloke "probably either too skeptical, too much considering of various factors, or - mostly likely - way to stupid"

[JRaymo]

That's interesting - and I wouldn't dispute it...

...but they were dealing with rusted steel (probably threaded nuts/bolts ??), and we are dealing with copper alloys' surfaces being stuck together for one or more of several reasons.
- plain ol' corrosion/oxidation
- leached solder acid
- various types of greases having dried into cement
- lime/scale
- small dents in the tubing
- stuff I haven't though of, while typing this B.S.

As far as "The Science", I would like to know whether they did their experiment over-and-over (and averaged it) or whether it was just one set of bolts (which someone attempted to rust together "the same").

bloke "probably either too skeptical, too much considering of various factors, or - mostly likely - way to stupid"

Very good point. The kroil we use in aviation a lot. The penetrating action on it is really good but if there are factors as you have just listed it might not matter if it doesn’t act on hardened or dried on materials.


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[travisd]

As far as "The Science", I would like to know whether they did their experiment over-and-over (and averaged it) or whether it was just one set of bolts (which someone attempted to rust together "the same").

Found a transcription of the test article over on the RX8Club forum.

Testing Different Types of Penetrating Oils
By Lloyd Bender


A question that is often raised by mechanics is the effectiveness of penetrating oils in loosening rusted fasteners. Do the commercial products really loosen bolts and, if so, which one works the best? To find out, four of these (Kano Kroil, Liquid Wrench, PBBlaster, and WD-40) were tested for performance, along with a homebrew mix of one part automatic transmission fluid with one part acetone.

Natural exposure would be representative of real world applications, but requires a very long time and a number of replicate samples to handle the wide sample-to-sample scatter encountered in natural exposure. Using artificially accelerated corrosion reduces the time required and provides nearly identical test samples. The testing done was not on bolts, since I don't have access to equipment for measuring the torque on threaded fasteners, but can measure the load on a sliding fit.

So you can decide if this was a fair test or not, this is what I did. A 5/8" diameter rod of cold-finished low carbon steel was lathe drilled, parted off in 0.50" lengths, and numbered sequentially. Each length was individually reamed to 0.250". All pieces along with commercial ground 1/4" x 1" dowel pins were ultrasonically cleaned together for twenty minutes in methanol to remove all machining fluid and oil. A dowel was inserted into each length using light finger pressure leaving 1/4" of dowel exposed at each end. Yearsof exposure were simulated by twelve hours of alternate immersion using ten minutes in a 3% solution of NaCI (table salt) followed by 50 minutes of drying in 105° Fair.

The corroded samples were randomly divided into five groups (Photo 1), plus one control group left as-corroded. One fluid ounce of penetrating oil was used to immerse each group of three samples for a period of twelve hours.

Samples were then drained on paper towels to remove the excess oil for ease in handling. A Baldwin compressometer on 1200-pound scale was used to determine the load required to move the dowel pin. This was done in numerical sequence in a single blind test - samples only identified by number and not with the penetrating oil used.

Code: Select all

PENETRATING OIL     AVERAGE LOAD       PRICE PER FLUID OUNCE
ATF / Acetone Mix    53 pounds         $0.10
Kano Kroil           106 pounds        $0.75
Liquid Wrench        127 pounds        $0.21
PB Blaster           214 pounds        $0.35
WD-40                238 pounds        $0.25
None                 516 pounds         -

he first and foremost conclusion I reached from the results: Any oil is better than trying to strong-arm things apart dry. These products actually do free up rusted parts. The price and performance of mixing your own penetrating oil is interesting, but keep in mind that most of the cost in the commercial products comes from the easy applicator can. If you have the time and opportunity for soaking overnight, the home brew method appears to be a winner.

By the way, on the subject of cost, the price quoted is what I paid locally to obtain the minimum quantity possible. Buying in bulk and shopping around can reduce the price of the commercial penetrating oils substantially.

There's a PDF there too, but too big to attach here, so I re-shared it from Dropbox for now: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sn64ukyfx76i2 ... 1.pdf?dl=0

[Rick Denney]

Acetone might kill your lacquer, though.

Rick "be careful" Denney

[bloke]

Acetone might kill your lacquer, though.

Rick "be careful" Denney

No lacquer means professional though, doesn't it?

NEVER "crumpled up and repaired"

[bloke]

clarification:

I'm no champion nor apologist for PB Blaster...

I've just found that it's pretty good at doing stuff that it doesn't claim to be able to do.

If I came across something that worked better (as far as quick/b.s. freeing lime-stuck rotors) and was cheaper, I'd be glad to use it - particularly it if didn't stink.

[bisontuba]

I just used some...smells like moth balls...still stuck, so putting on the shelf to let it soak in...

I also have some Ferree's J-88 corrosion cracker...now THAT has a smell...but I did get one of my two stuck slides free on an antique inst....so down to one more....

[JRaymo]

clarification:

I'm no champion nor apologist for PB Blaster...

I've just found that it's pretty good at doing stuff that it doesn't claim to be able to do.

If I came across something that worked better (as far as quick/b.s. freeing lime-stuck rotors) and was cheaper, I'd be glad to use it - particularly it if didn't stink.

I don’t know the cost comparison of PB to Kroil but Kroil has an odor but I would consider it somewhat pleasant. I remember I once had a bottle of “Corrosion cracker” from Ferreese that looked and smelled the same as Kroil. I am guessing here but it probably was Kroil rebadged. I don’t know the cost because I have only used it at work. I do know it comes in a spray can like wd40 but also a large gallon size non pressurized container.


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[JRaymo]

Was walking through our engine shop and snapped a pic of a can. Claims harmless to metals.


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[bisontuba]

Ahhh...the last frozen slide is now free on the antique horn..

[BopEuph]

330381424_752263779861352_2406333528152360445_n.jpg

I assume this chart is using classic WD-40, but I have a can of WD-40 brand penetrating oil in the garage. Don't know where it came from, but it's yellow and black as opposed to the classic blue and red can.

[Tubajug]

Ahhh...the last frozen slide is now free on the antique horn..

All with the PB Blaster?

I have some Martin Mammoth slides I need to free....

[bisontuba]

Ahhh...the last frozen slide is now free on the antique horn..

All with the PB Blaster?

I have some Martin Mammoth slides I need to free....

Yes.....

[bloke]

If there is scale that is cementing a slide down at the bottom end or latent solder acid down there that's doing the same thing, you might need to spray the blaster in from the valve casings and let it run up to the bottom ends of the slide tubes.

Also, a careful/measured/firm sideways twist in both directions of the slide bow will tend to rotate the pairs of slide tubes and hopefully break them free while avoiding yanking.

[Tubajug]

If there is scale that is cementing a slide down at the bottom end or latent solder acid down there that's doing the same thing, you might need to spray the blaster in from the valve casings and let it run up to the bottom ends of the slide tubes.

I had never thought of that. I always just sprayed it on the end with the slide crook and prayed it worked its way in. Thanks @bloke!