Besson 981 question

[LeMark]

Let's say I was interested in a besson 981 with the low, straight leadpipe. Anyone who has ever met me knows that would be a terrible idea because of my height, but... I've also heard of people swapping to the higher, taller leadpipe from the 982.

Would I have to take length from the main tuning slide to make that work? Is the 982 leadpipe longer? I'm thinking it would have to be.

[bloke]

Shortening (or lengthening) that J bow on the back doesn't seem to screw up intonation characteristics on those types of instruments, but only tends to raise and lower the overall pitch. That's all I have to say about this, because I don't know anymore about this.

[Oedipoes]

I think you're confusing the taper of those leadpipes and their shape:
The 981 leadpipe has the wider taper, but it can be bent to the straight or S-shape.
The 982 has a smaller taper, but I guess you could also bend it the way you like, I have only see the S-shape though...

I'm 175cm and the straight pipe is in the perfect position when putting the instrument on top of my legs.
If you're big, I don't know if that will work...

Hope this helps?

[LeMark]

I think you're confusing the taper of those leadpipes and their shape:
The 981 leadpipe has the wider taper, but it can be bent to the straight or S-shape.
The 982 has a smaller taper, but I guess you could also bend it the way you like, I have only see the S-shape though...

I'm 175cm and the straight pipe is in the perfect position when putting the instrument on top of my legs.
If you're big, I don't know if that will work...

Hope this helps?

So they are the same length?

I'm 203Ccm

[bloke]

I'm not any sort of advanced mathematician (having only been taught high school algebra courses, geometry courses, trigonometry courses, and introductory calculus courses), but I have to do eyeball geometry pretty damned often. If a receiver is going to stick out at the same angle in relation to the instrument), but inches higher than with another mouthpipe - yet with the valve section end of the mouthpipe coming out at the same place, not only is it going to need to be longer to achieve that height, but it's also going to have to be longer because it's going to be wrapping around a fatter part of the bell.
I've had sellers tell me that the mouthpipes are the same length on those two types of models, but I don't necessarily believe things just because someone said them. If I am to be shown that I'm overlooking something, I need to be shown it - and not just told it... and shown definitively rather than rhetorically by someone who sells and doesn't build.

[Oedipoes]

If a receiver is going to stick out at the same angle in relation to the instrument

It does not, in my experience, the S-shaped version wraps much less around the bell.
Playing the straight pipe will position the instrument almost parallel to the body, whereas with the S-shaped version the tuba is closer to at 45° angle.
Comparing the playing position of John Fletcher (straight leadpipe) to that of someone like Les Neish (S-shape) shows what I mean.

But anyone that has access to both versions, please measure the length of the pipe and post it here.

[bloke]

Good information

[Oedipoes]

Here you can see a straight and an S-shaped mouthpipe version side by side, tried to orient the pictures as good as possible.

tubas (004).jpg (140.28 KiB) Viewed 686 times

[Oedipoes]

I should have mentioned that the one on the right is an original Besson 982, the one on the left is a modified pre-sovereign, branded Besson but technically a B&H Imperial.
The modified instrument originally had a small-receiver, smaller-taper S-shaped mouthpipe that was replaced in the UK by the straight large one.
It's main bows were also shortened to bring it up to pitch, which was an issue with all these early 19" bell Eb tubas...

[bloke]

I should have mentioned that the one on the right is an original Besson 982, the one on the left is a modified pre-sovereign, branded Besson but technically a B&H Imperial.
The modified instrument originally had a small-receiver, smaller-taper S-shaped mouthpipe that was replaced in the UK by the straight large one.
It's main bows were also shortened to bring it up to pitch, which was an issue with all these early 19" bell Eb tubas...

I've wondered if taking a 19-in bell compensating E-flat instrument and putting a 15-in bell on it - such as a Yamaha yep-321 complete replica of the old English 15-in bell - might actually require lengthening the instrument.

ie. if/then