pitching keys (key signatures) while playing "old songs" gigs

[bloke]

definition of terms:
Some people call it "dixieland". Others find that offensive - since they find the yankee minstrel song "Dixie" to be offensive.
Some view the term "traditional jazz" as offensive, as those who created those genre(s) of music were striving to be anything-but traditional with it.
...I've decided to refer to it as "playing old songs". It's not specific enough, but neither is any term, and - one must admit - it's "inclusive".

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Let's play "Sweet Georgia Brown"...Hey bloke, what key?

You're going to want to play it in A-flat, beginning on F⁷, or leading from the tonic in the last bar back to F⁷.

The original (published sheet music) key is G - as so much published music from that era favored easier violin and piano keys, but - since there's no fiddle - we probably don't want to play a bunch of E⁷'s and A⁷'s...

...so bloke tends to remember the best-or-traditionally-played keys of most "standard" tunes of this/these genre.

When some patron asks for a song that can be played in this/these styles, everyone knows how it goes, but isn't typically part of the repertoire, a bandleader might still ask, "What key, bloke?"

I quickly think through the song (rushing ahead to the highest pitch), figure out which scale step that highest pitch is, value that pitch at ether (concert) G or A-flat (which are fairly-high-yet-not-extremely-high pitches), figure out which of those two defined keys is an easier key, and then holler that key up to the band.

[UncleBeer]

"Don't worry; you'll hear it". As said to me one too many a time by bandleaders concerning mysterious, inscrutable, oddball tunes which pretty much no-one's ever heard.

[bloke]

"Don't worry; you'll hear it". As said to me one too many a time by bandleaders concerning mysterious, inscrutable, oddball tunes which pretty much no-one's ever heard.

I've learned a bunch of obscure tunes over the decades, but - when I stumble across one on youtube (that I've heard OF - but not HEARD), yep: I'll click on it and listen...particularly if it's a decent band.

Library of Congress and other huge museums have (online) the original sheet music to a bunch of this stuff (plus a whole bunch of stuff that never sold or received any real airplay) which I occasionally reference (often: to discover if any of their verses are worth including along with those songs' typically-played choruses.

The thing is that the music is dying - along with those who play it. The three guys who I work with (and way less often than in the past) have all either reached or well-exceeded "typical life expectancy".

Dixieland revivals occurred in the 1950's into the 60's, and again in the 1980's.

I'm thinking that "songs with more than one chord" and "melodies which are sung, rather than spoken" are now going to be judged as too sophisticated for any future revivals...but I suppose there will always be some young people who get together to play Saint Go Marchin' In, Bill Bailey, Down By the Riverside (and then, back to Saints) as spectacles for towns' little Mardi Gras parades...as long as they can find written-out arrangements.

[Tim Jackson]

"playing old songs" how about - playing songs your grandmother doesn't even remember? Yes, it is dying, and for a reason. Back when men were men and jazz was jazz (statement not meant to make any sense) well, in the 20s-40s folks were jazzing up pop tunes - music common peps of the day recognized. Now most jazzers are still playing the same ancient tunes. But now no common folks recognize the tunes - so it's really just dribble to most ears. If jazzers of today spent more time jazzing up current tunes they might discover a newfound audience. Like Post Modern Juke Box did.
I still enjoy playing old songs because it is fun but I know it is not the way forward. Smooth Jazz was an attempt - odd that so many players put it down when plenty of regular folks were digging it. I love serious music of all styles and play Bach to Kraft at night at home. But the side of me that likes to make folks happy knows that most people like to hear things that are familiar. I like making people very happy with music and I like making big money doing it - they go hand in hand.

Easy for musicians to make this common mistake: when I was first getting started in the gig scene I learned that when you saw the "blue hair" play Satin Doll, In The Mood, and Alley Cat to light up the room... and it did. 20 years later when I had my own band and saw the blue hair I knew what tunes to play. Then you realize the blue hair of today ain't the blue hair of yesterday. Even the nursing home folks are yelling for 50s & 60s music these days. A "make folks happy" band (of today) is not going to play "Tie A Yellow Ribbon" for the same reason a jazz band should move away from tunes like Rosetta and Honeysuckle Rose. Two of my favorites I might add! I'm in the trenches with a very unique band. We do great 20s-30s hot jazz all the way to Uptown Funk and even a few rap tunes. I get to see the reaction of regular people to all these styles (done very well I might add) in one night. My gigs are large weddings and conventions - of all ages and demographics. It's pretty easy to figure out what is effective.

ART - a certain artist paints a picture - he doesn't care if folks like it or not. He just wants to paint what he wants to paint. Usually ends up in an attic. Years later - it is discovered and may or may not sell for big money. A commercial artist paints a picture that someone is sure to like - and purchase now.

A "successful" commercial musician (someone that would like to make some dough) creates music that...

[bloke]

After they had moved away from the Audio Fidelity record label, the Dukes of Dixieland were playing very recently composed movie themes in their very stylized version of dixieland jazz (as a later LP contains nothing but this type of music). This was in the Kennedy era, after they had achieved their fame in the late 50s and had played their Carnegie Hall concert.
Frank Assunto knew that the style has wide appeal, but that the music needed to move forward, and not remain static. Further, he knew that it needed to be played beautifully and artistically, and that blasting it out by clumsy insensitive players was not going to satisfy very many people's ears, who were actually there to listen to music.
Today, when I see crowds or groups reacting positively to poorly executed music in this style, I'm either wondering whether they are that insensitive in their listening, or if they think they are supposed to react positively to it regardless of how badly it's performed.

I myself am out of practice - because I'm now hired so seldom to play this type of music, and feel a little bit embarrassed when one of the band members records a set or a gig and I listen to myself play bass lines and solos - compared to how I played in the past, when I was doing this stuff weekly or even more often. Further, I'm almost phobic about pulling out my bass and playing it, because it's been so long.

[Tim Jackson]

What you bring up regarding the continued evolution of the Dukes reminds me of the documentary on Louie Prima I saw years ago. Absolutely fascinating how his band instrumentation and music evolved over the years. It is a great piece of work everyone here would enjoy. Maybe someone can find a link. Really fun to watch!

Hey, I'm getting rusty as well. I used to get the bass calls for all the jazz headliners coming into this area. Now I am playing upright so infrequently I dread taking the big gigs anymore. Not fun to be reminded of what you no longer have under your fingers.

Heading for the pasture!
TJ

[bloke]

yeah...Prima (of course) added an ELECTRIC guitar - particularly after he starred in that teenie-bopper friggin' BEACH MOVIE at age 51.

@Tim Jackson Do you know the story of how Sam's band ended up being named "The Witnesses" ?



...and don'ch'all start googling pictures of June Wilkinson...

[Tim Jackson]

nope... but like Sgt. Schultz always said "I KNOW NOTHING" But... OMG I just tried to look it up and saw that Lou Sino &
Paul Ferrara/drums were in the band. They were still playing in New Orleans when I got there in the early 80s. Lou was a showboatin' trombonist on Bourbon St. I worked with both these guys and never knew they were with Sam & Louie. Of course, I really didn't know much of anything back then... I was as green as a bunch of collards. I remember approaching Lou and as I was trying to break into the scene, he was on break at the Mason Bourbon and next store eating some Etoufee. I asked: Mr. Sino, I'm new in town, play bass, can I sit in & maybe you can use me some time... he answered abruptly "No! What do you think this is, a talent show!". I already knew Paul Ferrara, so in a few weeks Lou needed a sub and Paul got me on. Then I was "in" and started getting work as a sub on the band. Amazing times I will never forget - but I certainly haven't thought about those good ol' days in a long time. So much fun for a young guy. Things sure bees a changin"

TJ

[bloke]

I remember your trombone friend jumping up in the air while playing and wearing wild looking suits.

The story about the Witnesses is that Louis Prima told Sam Butera (as there just wasn't enough work in New Orleans) that he was going to fly to Vegas and try to find work for himself and a band and to be ready at the drop of a hat to come out there. Maybe a week or less later.. maybe two weeks. I don't know... Prima called Butera and said that they needed to get on a plane that day and be out in Vegas in time for a job that started that very night. Sam Butera rounded up some players and they made it out there just in time to get on stage. Louis Prima greeted the audience and said to them something like, "Good evening ladies and gentlemen. My name is Louis Prima, and this is Sam Butera and the...
...and Sam hollered back at him THE WITNESSES!

Sam told me this himself at a Mississippi casino, when I was buying some CDs from him too support him a little bit after he played a couple of free sets. He was already in his seventies, and was playing better than he played in his thirties. On his Mark 6 tenor, he was popping out trumpet double high Cs and stuff like that, and he wasn't squealing them like the guy on Saturday Night Live; he was actually playing them.

[Charlie C Chowder]

Every thing that the Banjoliers play is in C, F, or G, and nothing younger then "Sound of Music"

CCC

[bloke]

Every thing that the Banjoliers play is in C, F, or G, and nothing younger then "Sound of Music"

CCC

remarkably nice