old communist B&S C

[TheBerlinerTuba]

Thank you Bloke, that's good to know. Maybe we should shift this thread to the main channel?
I understand that B&S worked on various 4/4 C-Tuba designs from the 60s to the 80s before settling on what became the PT3/3098 series. It was a sort of throw everything the wall and see what sticks.
The pre Wende(German reunification 1989)C-Tubas that I have seen were:
1. The cut down 101 with 45 degree entry/exit ports with a cylindrical 19mm 4 valve block.
2. The same tuba but with direct inlet ports.
3. The same as Nr.2 but with a 19-21mm valve block
4. Nr 3 but with 5 valves with the side entry leadpipe.
5. The tall bell version with cylindrical valves (also sporting Melton parts...)

For many professional tubists in the DDR, most orchestral players used C-Tuba instead of BBb so we had a lot of active development. BBb was mostly for military and 1-2 opera guys.

A note regarding engraving. Please do not take the engraving so seriously. One of the guys who worked on the assembly then, told me they just engraved "whatever" but the tubas were mostly the same.
The Symphonie F was engraved as such to connotate a "premium"
I suppose "Symphonie" was used to give whatever tuba a bit more pizzaz.
Just to help me track down this C made from F parts, next time someone here sees one, could you try to get me the serial number?
B&S kept detailed records and it would interesting to find out more just for us history nerds.

[Rick Denney]

[mention]TheBerlinerTuba [/mention] I’m glad I was able to draw you into the discussion. I’ve been digging into the history of tubas for 30 years but didn’t discover your blog until this year. I think it was Wade that opened that door. Obviously, much tuba history is known only in Germany.

The five-valve Symphonie F that received the Dubro ball links has moved on to other owners. I found a later—probably last generation—six-valve F that worked better for me. The older one was prettier but the newer one was more practical. It still has the original linkages because they work.

My first experiment with Dubro links was on a Sanders-branded Amati/Cerveny Bb tuba. In those pre-Internet days, Miniball wasn’t available (at least not outside the trade) and I was on a budget. Those certainly worked and looked better than the small and less robust hobby-store linkages that came on the tuba. (Those used tiny snap-on ball links threaded onto 2-56 threaded rod running through aluminum tubing.)

But I’m leaving the S-links on the Giardinelli.

As to which bell goes on what, I have no data. But I can say that I have compared an Alexander 155 to a B&S Symphonie side by side, and the B&S is noticeably larger, physically and aurally. I’ll measure my two bells (F and Bb) at some point just to bite differences. Bell size won’t be much of a difference. But the bore size of a B&S F at the tuning slide is larger than many 4/4 contrabass tubas. To my ears, the B&S F was the first really successful bass tuba for general-purpose orchestral use, at least with the instrumentation changes happening around it.

Rick “tuba ads don’t come with measurements” Denney

[bloke]

The one ("barely" 4/4 C - not tall/not short) to which I referred was offered on the auction site.

If one is brought by here for repair (or if someone offers one for such a low price that I cannot resist - even though I've emptied out my pockets attempting to prop up my adult children during the past three years), I'll jot down the number and send it to you, sir.

(NO IDEA they kept records that meticulous...As we tend to stereotype other peoples, I always sort of thought of "serial numbers on continental European instruments prior to the 1980's" as "b.s. which American importers insisted on." Please understand that my WRONG guess about this has nothing to do with my view of the QUALITY of the products...This WRONG idea was based on the NO SERIAL NUMBER 1973-made MIRAPHONE C tuba that I bought new in 1974 - circumventing the USA exclusive importer.)

Symphonie model F tubas:
I suspect that (based on all that you know about them, including your expressed opinions on "which were the best", etc.) you really like these instruments.

To me, the BEST of them are (to F tubas) as the BEST of Henri Selmer Mark VI saxophones are to saxophones...

They were the best that have ever been made, and everything beyond those (again, the BEST of those) either involved some compromise in sonority, some compromise in intonation, (or both) - to attempt to achieve whatever was attempted to be achieved "beyond" (read: "fail").

clarifications: There are a few other F tubas that I "like", but why (if I'm to only own ONE F tuba) own anything other than a B&S Symphonie (sure: 6-rotor) model?

[bloke]

@TheBerlinerTuba

It - indeed - is a (seller specs: 16-1/2" bell diameter [w/wide kranz - pictures] / 37-3/4" height) Conn-Selmer imported "Meister Gerhard Schneider...