bloke's wonky spring-loaded back-of-the-tuba wrist-operated #3 slide in practice

[bloke]

I was asked to drop in on a band rehearsal (none of their four tuba players were able to be there). I could only stay for a bit over an hour (working with Mrs. bloke's schedule), but I finally (OK...some players offering dubious intonation, but many good-tuning players in the band) had a chance to test out some of my new Fat Bastard (Miraphone 98) add-on gadgetry.

First, the fact that I can (simply) relax my left wrist, the #3 slide ends up being pushed in an inch, and G-flat (bottom line of the staff) is magically high enough in pitch (without "lipping") is absolutely luxurious (and it "rings" so nicely - with the correct length of tubing engaged (rather than the old "G-flat is a dark-sounding key" band-theorum)...and then for that slide to recover to the extended position (required for D-flat and "low" G-flat)...really cool.

I also did some tube-replacing and realigning of the 98's (nonconformist wrap) #4 slide circuit. It's way easier than I expected (when the intonation of B-naturals below the staff is really important) to rotate (again) my left hand wrist and nudge the upper #4 slide up an inch (as 2-4 is the best solution for that pitch on this instrument)...

...the perfect "test piece" for this stuff...??

...the old C. Dragon America The Beautiful chestnut - whereby those specific pitches are not only oft-played, but long-sustained...(and plenty of other opportunities as well, as (pre-"the era of formula band-pieces" ) band music absolutely embraces the flats - including C-flat).

[matt g]

That Carmen Dragon piece is an absolute gem when played well. Demands precise intonation, which strips bare many ensembles.

[bloke]

related:

- I've heard people claim that chimes are tuned flat, but I suspect that bands often play sharper than chimes are tuned flatter.

- I recall some pretty nice sounding performances where all the tuba players had three valve tubas (sousaphones), which meant they were really struggling (overly long #3 circuits) to play those G-flats up to pitch, yet they were.

- I also remember a performance where a young man dragged a C trumpet in to an "honor" band to show off. Clarence Sawhill (recently retired UCLA band director) noticed it right away, remarked on it, and mentioned that he hoped it wouldn't present a problem. It (or its player) did present some problems at the very end of that piece, whereby a B-flat trumpet would have played the very end of that piece so easily and so securely.

[Mary Ann]

One of the bands I'm in, at the start of the rehearsal, the 1st clarinet gets up and harangues the band for ten minutes about tuning (and I'm close to having had enough, because he did it IN FRONT OF THE AUDIENCE at the last performance) and he decided, because the trumpets are always sharp, that now the band would tune to 444. Notwithstanding that the mallet instruments and the double reed instruments, can't go there. I personally find him to be an insulting a$$, plus apparently not willing to deal with the real source of the problem, as if they would pay any attention to him either. I find that often such people are high money contributors to an organization.

Next time I'll tell you what I REALLY think. Maybe it will involve a spring-loaded back-of-the-wrist used in a different way.

[arpthark]

One of the bands I'm in, at the start of the rehearsal, the 1st clarinet gets up and harangues the band for ten minutes about tuning (and I'm close to having had enough, because he did it IN FRONT OF THE AUDIENCE at the last performance) and he decided, because the trumpets are always sharp, that now the band would tune to 444. Notwithstanding that the mallet instruments and the double reed instruments, can't go there. I personally find him to be an insulting a$$, plus apparently not willing to deal with the real source of the problem, as if they would pay any attention to him either. I find that often such people are high money contributors to an organization.

Next time I'll tell you what I REALLY think. Maybe it will involve a spring-loaded back-of-the-wrist used in a different way.

I used to play in a community band with a problem like that, also involving a clarinetist.

Folks, it's a community band. Tuning ain't gonna be perfect. And working on tuning is something that needs to be fixed during rehearsals, not at the drop of a hat as the result of a somebody's tantrum. That's the director's job. Not your job. Your job is to blend with the rest of the band, whether you are "right" in the gilded metric of A=440 Hz or not. If you think it's a horrible, horrible problem, at most, speak to the director privately (so as to make yourself look like an @$$ to one person, as opposed to 40 people). My band, like many community groups, constantly pushes sharp. So I push in my tuning slide.

Certain groups allow big fish/small pond dynamics to go unchecked, and can culminate in unproductive outbursts as you highlighted above.

[Mary Ann]

Oh, this is every single rehearsal. At least ten minutes, at the start of the rehearsal. Many have said they are "not fond" of this, but it is basically a fun band that plays quite well for a community band, good natured conductor. That's why I figure he gives them money because otherwise I can't figure out why this continues. Apparently for a long time now. It was his doing it in front of the audience at the start of the concert, that really, REALLY got my goat. He seems to think the band cares what he thinks. Something wrong with that guy upstairs, because nothing changes and the harangues accomplish nothing. I'm trying to figure a way to have an "audience member" send an email saying how astonished they were to see the band insulted in such a way in front of an audience, and how I (as that "audience member") was astonished at that behavior.
Of course I have the option to leave, and maybe next fall I'll be elsewhere. Only recently joined upon invitation to the horn section.

[bloke]

Tuning is my responsibility.

I'm not responsible for your tuning and that clarinet jackass isn't either.

I'd be willing to wager up to $100 that his tuning is no better than anyone's else.

As a female person, a short person, and an older person, I believe it would be a good thing for you to stand up and tell him to sit the f*** down and shut the f*** up "because you are [he is] an obnoxious imbecile" even if he's been there for decades, and you've been there for months. I would predict applause.

People tend to listen to the bass, and when I play, I suspect the double basses listen to me just as much as they do their own principal player (even though he's really an extremely remarkably fine player) and I suspect that a lot of the other players in the orchestra do as well, but I can't be really sure about the fiddles, because they're over there in their own beehive. Again, I think I view myself as responsible for my tuning but not for anyone's else, but I believe I'm responsible for being in tune so that others can more easily tune, if that makes sense. The tuba player attitude that "My tuning is good enough, because it's hard to play a tuba in tune" is a horrible attitude, and the other tuba player attitude that "My tuning is wonderful, because it sounds wonderful to me" is also horrible.

There are two things that a tuba can do in an orchestra to screw everything up. One is to play out of tune, because the tuba has such a commanding, wide, and umbrella type of sound that it's going to sound right even when it's wrong, so - since it sounds right - it had damn well better be right (in much the same way that the software that automatically lands a jetliner better damn well be right). The second thing a tuba player can do in an orchestra - to screw everything up - is to play behind the sound instead of in the very front of the sound (with the first trumpet player), because - if the tuba is not in the front of the sound - the sound loses about half of its power. I suppose a third thing that the tuba player can do to screw everything up in an orchestra is to ignore the style that others are employing who are covering the same lines, whether it be the bassoons, the trombones, the basses, or other sections.

[Bob Kolada]

Tuning is my responsibility.

I'm not responsible for your tuning and that clarinet jackass isn't either.

I'd be willing to wager up to $100 that his tuning is no better than anyone's else.

As a female person, a short person, and an older person, I believe it would be a good thing for you to stand up and tell him to sit the f*** down and shut the f*** up "because you are [he is] an obnoxious imbecile" even if he's been there for decades, and you've been there for months. I would predict applause.

People tend to listen to the bass, and when I play, I suspect the double basses listen to me just as much as they do their own principal player (even though he's really an extremely remarkably fine player) and I suspect that a lot of the other players in the orchestra do as well, but I can't be really sure about the fiddles, because they're over there in their own beehive. Again, I think I view myself as responsible for my tuning but not for anyone's else, but I believe I'm responsible for being in tune so that others can more easily tune, if that makes sense. The tuba player attitude that "My tuning is good enough, because it's hard to play a tuba in tune" is a horrible attitude, and the other tuba player attitude that "My tuning is wonderful, because it sounds wonderful to me" is also horrible.

There are two things that a tuba can do in an orchestra to screw everything up. One is to play out of tune, because the tuba has such a commanding, wide, and umbrella type of sound that it's going to sound right even when it's wrong, so - since it sounds right - it had damn well better be right (in much the same way that the software that automatically lands a jetliner better damn well be right). The second thing a tuba player can do in an orchestra - to screw everything up - is to play behind the sound instead of in the very front of the sound (with the first trumpet player), because - if the tuba is not in the front of the sound - the sound loses about half of its power. I suppose a third thing that the tuba player can do to screw everything up in an orchestra is to ignore the style that others are employing who are covering the same lines, whether it be the bassoons, the trombones, the basses, or other sections.

A band I used to play in had a new bass trombonist join who was supposed to be an excellent player, doctorate in performance and all that. He absolutely refused to match anyone else stylistically. When the music calls for short, 'bouncy' notes guess what instrument really stands out when it's player decides everything is going to be extra full length?

[bloke]

A band I used to play in had a new bass trombonist join who was supposed to be an excellent player, doctorate in performance and all that. He absolutely refused to match anyone else stylistically. When the music calls for short, 'bouncy' notes guess what instrument really stands out when it's player decides everything is going to be extra full length?

specific example of ATTEMPTING to dictate style - when I play with large ensembles: 6/8 marches

To me an IMPORTANT way to HELP 6/8 marches SOUND LIKE 6/8 marches is to play them as LITERALLY written, and with the bass notes (though with a stylistic pizzicato-type decay) ACTUALLY take up 2/3rd of the beat (noticeably LONGER than duple-meter bass note executions).

6-8 time.png (3.68 KiB) Viewed 604 times

BUT...
If I can't get the other tubas/baritone saxes (etc.) to go along with me, I'll quickly retreat to (well...) playing wrong and (if I'm not in charge of a section and/or am a visitor) say NOTHING.

[iiipopes]

Tuning is my responsibility.

THIS!!! ^ I can't emphasize enough that the tuba player/section is the foundation. We may take a cue from an oboe or electronic tuner, but once set, this is absolutely foundational and necessary. If temperature, humidity, etc., changes during the rehearsal or performance and need re-centering generally, so be it. And as bloke elaborated, everybody else's tuning is their problem, not yours, especially if you have good conductor or director that knows the difference.

To paraphrase the scene where Marlon Brando as the Godfather is giving advice to Mikey: We spend our playing careers trying not to be careless. The rest of the instrument players can be careless, but not tuba players.