Cerveny 696 at ITEC

[cktuba]

Anybody try it? Thoughts?

[Pakins51]

I played on it, but it was not in tune with itself, mainly the C just below the staff. They did say it wasn't a very good example of one though. But, it did feel like there was something wrong with it, not sure what but it just didn't feel solid.

[LeMark]

are we talking about the CC or BBb?

[Pakins51]

They only had the CC at ITEC

[bloke]

I'll be able to play one on the 5th of next month. I have an older one, so I'm looking forward to trying a newer one

[jtm]

Why would they bring a not very good example to a show?

[bloke]

Often, instruments are shipped to shows from a different location other than the retail establishment location of the person who's showing them, and due to logistics the show is the first time that they've been able to see the instrument. I can sympathize. I showed an early 3/4 four piston B flat that's now a popular model, and it arrived with some packing material that had fallen around past the bottom bow that I couldn't get out without stuff I had back home. Another time, the first C tuba from that company arrived at midwest, and it arrived with the bell smashed up.

As far as that open C is concerned, it tends to float around above or below pitch depending on the model. If some one testing an instrument is accustomed to lipping that pitch up or down on their own instrument - and it's located another place on the instrument they're testing, they're going to tend to continue to lip the same way they do with their own instrument, and it may seem that that pitch is out of tune, where it actually isn't or it only barely is.

[bloke]

If I think I have room in the trunk, I might take mine along on the trip. It would be nice to be able to Compare the new one to my older one

I've been saying for years that cerveny quality fell sharply in the 90's, but people keep telling me it's recovered. I hope they are right, but I played a pretty new 686 BBb in February and wasn't that impressed

Here's mine before and after I added the 5th valve

[bloke]

I never judged rotors on Czech instruments to be sub quality, only the really budget linkage that they were sticking on those things a few decades ago. They were thinwall instruments, but thin and cheap are not synonyms.


In the past, if someone wanted an inexpensive tuba that worked, they bought instruments from Czechoslovakia. A certain very large factory in China has taken that position over, yes? I would prefer the rotors on those decades old Czech instruments to those on I've experienced on one particular very large Chinese factory's instruments.

If someone is claiming that those Czech instruments didn't play in tune, I've played a whole bunch of really expensive instruments that don't play in tune, I certainly don't judge them as special in that regard. I believe that when manufacturers have done things in order to generate a whole bunch of cashet, they are given a pass - and this pertains to a Japanese/Chinese manufacturer as well.

A friend of mine actually gave me a horribly beat up 681 recently that probably dated back to the 1980s - back when that company in New Jersey was pushing them out the door at a really rapid rate. The rotors were all fine on that instrument, since the linkage was crappy and some of it was missing, I replaced it with new crappy Chinese linkage that works just as well - yet reasonably quiet, the dents were easy to remove because of the thin wall metal, which - by the way - didn't have but one crack which I easily brazed back together. The church customer was delighted with it, and there you go.

[bloke]

I never thought Cerveny's downfall had anything to do with Rotor quality or intonation. It was more of playing on one and it lacking the "feel" of a professional quality instrument, both in terms of responsiveness and resonance

After having played and owned many quality Cerveny instruments built in the 70's and 80's, to test play what they were making in the 2000's was depressing.

Just for context, Brook Mays was a huge importer of them, and I blame the pressure BM put on cerveny to step up production to provide a flowing source of "cheap" tubas for the Texas public schools. Cerveny couldn't do that without sacrificing quality, so what BM received were instruments that had the resonance of a garden hose attached to a trash can. This was also about the time that Chinese options were moving away from the "tuba shaped object" label, so retailers moved on to other options, and cerveny was left in shambles with a reputation that had been shredded, and with the "cheaper than Miraphone" market lost forever.

For those of you who don't remember, I was the Brook Mays "tuba store" rep that took over for Charlie Krause in the early 2000's, I feel I have more than a little bit of experience that allows me to say these things

[bloke]

NEMC in NJ was more high profile nationally than Brooks Mays ever was, I suspect they sold far more of those instruments, as Brooks only attempted to become national (did this attempt lead to their downfall?) whereas that company actually succeeded.

The first paragraph of your post is remarkably subjective, and I think the same thing could be said - wherher or not across-the-board valid - about Miraphone tubas after they were no longer handmade but (per one of my points) they have more cachet, don't they?

I've never owned a Czech tuba, and don't imagine myself ever owning one, but I'm just responding to comments that could be applied to most any product of any type made by anyone.

"doesn't play like mine" - even if/when completely true - isn't necessarily good nor bad.

Further, I'm not trolling, but attempting to make a point.

[LeMark]

When you are used to a certain level of performance and quality for a certain line, and then suddenly you start experiencing something far below that, it's not something that can be overlooked

[bloke]

If it's beyond valves, slides, fit, and finish, it then becomes subjective, and someone else could just as easily like the differences, rather than dislike them.
tubagod #1: "This is stuffy."
tubagod #2: "The has lots of resistance, and is easy to control."

tubagod #1: "The tuba is dead."
tubagod #2: This tuba plays nice and tight, with a consistent type of resonance top-to-bottom."

When Miraphone tubas changed, the most observant realized that they had received something different, but most everyone else noticed that they were made well and were Miraphone.

Swiss-made tubas - to me - are impossible - as are Japanese tubas, but they both worked that "cashet" thing..."Rolls Royce of Tubas", "hey: made at the same place that makes all those euphoniums that D.C. military people are buying", or (simply) "We're the best, just because we say we are, and we charge a lot for our stuff...' you get that, band directors?".

Cerveny - simply - made tubas and put the specs underneath the pictures. "You like tuba? You buy."
I'll take your word for it that they're different, but - with Miraphone - some people like that they now all play the same, and with equally-easy tuning, and others like particular old/handmade ones - that were (to Miraphone) as you claim that yours is (to Cerveny).

I'm probably at least as picky as you are. I don't own anything particularly recently-made - other than a handmade Miraphone (probably constructed around a decade ago), of which (likely) less than thirty have been built.

[bloke]

It will be interesting to play my 68 that's probably 45 years old and compare it A/B style to a new one in a couple weeks. I wish I had never sold my piggy, but I was very lucky to find this horn for such a good price. (and had the parts on hand to add the 5th valve)

[bloke]

We all like different stuff...

I like cheese.

I like crazy-expensive cheese (most any), and - if on some nasty/greasy hamburger - I like pasteurized process velcheesa food.

I wish I would BUY more "GOOD DEALS" tubas that personally do NOT like, because other people DO like them, and I have passed up QUITE a few opportunities to flip tubas for more (simply because I'm hesitant to buy ones I don't like).

[arpthark]

But do you flip cheese? Or just cut it?

[bloke]

But do you flip cheese? Or just cut it?

I flip it, but did not back when we lived in a typical house with ceiling that were only 8 feet high.

[LeMark]

So I spent over an hour at buckeye brass today.

They had two 696 CC tubas, and I played the one I was told was the better of the two. Good intonation, good valve action, it had a 2nd valve slide kicker that was cool, and I enjoyed playing it. It did have the dumb long half step 5th valve, which is something they are going to have to address before anyone will take them serious.

I also played a tall F tuba that decent, other than a terrible low C

Most of the cerveny tubas they had sounded good, but the intonation was not acceptable. They have sold two piggies, including one with a slide extension that gave it a long whole step. If they have sold the two they had, I bet they are doing a good job making them the right way.

[russiantuba]

So I spent over an hour at buckeye brass today.

They had two 696 CC tubas, and I played the one I was told was the better of the two. Good intonation, good valve action, it had a 2nd valve slide kicker that was cool, and I enjoyed playing it. It did have the dumb long half step 5th valve, which is something they are going to have to address before anyone will take them serious.

I also played a tall F tuba that decent, other than a terrible low C

Most of the cerveny tubas they had sounded good, but the intonation was not acceptable. They have sold two piggies, including one with a slide extension that gave it a long whole step. If they have sold the two they had, I bet they are doing a good job making them the right way.

I missed ya—I thought you were going to be around next week. Hope you enjoyed the shop (I need to get up there myself).

[Mary Ann]

Just because a trigger got hit --- I grew up with velcheesa and with spam, and do not consider either of them food at this point in my life.
I guess the star is not hand made, but pretty sure the 183 and 184 are -- and while they all are good, the Star is easier to play.